>>>Sorry. Sometimes I really do forget you are not a native English speaker.
>>>
>>>I am fine with the amount of ADO code generated for me. What I am uncomfortable with is the data layer hooking straight into the UI.
>>
>>I think we are saying the same thing:) With Devforce it is not the case.
>>
>
>From time to time I get emails about presentations they are making around here. I will try to attend the next one.

You "should" really check them out. The software is quite a lot more expensive than strataframe, but by the time you figure in free Devforce training (if you ask for free training BEFORE buying the product, you will most likely get it) and less expensive annual fees, it adds up to aBout the same. Devforce is much more advanced with web applications, and their tier structure is very good and efficient. It is what I would call an enterprise -level development system, though, so if you have small-to-medium size apps to develop, something like MM.NET might be a beter choice.