>I should really keep my mouth shut. But when have I ever been any good at that?

I should really ... oh never mind. :)

Presidents legacies do not com into focus for a minimu of 5 years and realistically need 10-20 years before historical perspective is able to make a proper determination. I believe W will be judged solely on what happens in Iraq. If Iraq becomes a shining example of democracy in the middle east spawning other countries in the area to adopt democratic principals, W's legacy will be secured as the great liberator. If Iraq falls into a failed state, the hands of a nuclear Iran or other awful circumstances, W will be regarded as a failure due to the "horribly misguided saga" as you put it. If Iraq struggles between the two extremes for decades W's legacy will be just that, mediocre.

As you know, I despise a great deal about W and his government-first policies which squandered the best chance the GOP had to undue the decades of socialistic creep in the State, however, knowing what we know now I would once again cast my ballot confidently for him over the megalomanical Gore and his delusional fantasy life as Gaia's Messiah.

Time will provide perspective and context to which contemporary reporters have no access.

IMHO anyone claiming to be a "historian" who passes judgment on the whole of a presidency without the benefit of even 5 years is not to be taken seriously.

>IMO history will treat him extremely harshly, even harsher than contemporary reporters and historians already have. There is nothing partisan about that statement. He was simply a bad President. Do I need to count the ways? Everything he has ever accomplished in life has been given to him. No brainpower, no curiosity. (Aides knew not to give him briefing papers longer than two pages. By contrast Obama takes home reams every night, and seems to understand them based on accounts that have come out about top aides who wanted to start out the next morning's meeting at Genesis). The horribly misguided saga in Iraq and the missing energy in Afghanistan, Pakistan, North Korea. The torture. The wiping of the administration's collective a** with the U.S. Constitution. The windfall to the already wealthy. The soaring debt. (Partial credit there for the 9/ll fallout, but only partial). The benign neglect stance as industry after industry plunged into debt or ruin. The ostrazing of even our best allies with the belligerent go-it-alone outlook.
>
>I don't think George Bush is a horrible person. He really seems like a nice guy. On a personal basis, I salute him for beating alcholism (and widely rumored drug abuse). That's no easy trick. But head of the free world? It was almost a cosmic joke, a satire.
>
>JOMO....
>
>>I think as time goes on, history will treat him kindly.
>>
>>>I guess I shouldn't be surprised that no one has mentioned it, but it was the horrible GW Bush who ensured that stockpiling of the appropriate meds was done over the past 5 years in order for the U.S. to be prepared for an epidemic/pandemic. It was after the avian flu scare I think?
>>>
>>>
>>>>This topic heading must have been written by Al Gore. It should read "People for first time in eight years believe US on right track". Bush, in the begining, had remarkable stats just as Obama has now . . . . . give Barak some time to screw up and make some people angry and we'll check back in eight years . . . . or maybe four. :))
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I heard this on the news. It is nationwide. You might still be able to get a gun, but not ammo:
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7014862077
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I don't really have a strong attraction to the Republican side - I just want everybody to let me earn my money and live my life the way I want to, without being told how to live and having to support freeloaders. It's that simple. I talked to my wife last night about taking my son hunting when he gets old enough, and it was a very uneasy feeling to wonder if I would be able to purchase a shotgun for him in 5-10 years. It would be a tragedy if we didn't get to enjoy hunting together in the future the way I get to enjoy it with my dad, brother, and friends today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>OT - I nailed my first turkey a few weekends ago. It was amazing. I couldn't have scripted it any better. My neighbor took his 8 year old son, and he (the dad) got one also. The look of excitement and enthusiasm in that boy's eyes is what it's all about.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The latter ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>For years my dad predicted I would become a conservative when I got older. He has given up on that. In fact, he voted for Obama in November, the first time he has ever voted for a Democrat.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I disliked the fact that his only goal was to show Heston as a senile old man. I don't think he was completely out of it by that point, but just the fact that MM surprised him like that would make anybody look bad. It was a sad thing I thought. Oh well, I was once a democrat but I've since seen the light/gone to the dark side.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Yes, the thing with Charlton Heston was bad. Even though Heston had been the head of the NRA, by the time Moore got to him he was old and out of it. Not very sporting, you might say.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I'm not saying he's a bad guy - I'm just saying that his material is usually very sensational and extremely biased. I don't remember any specifics as it has been a few years since I've seen them, but I remember being a little turned off by the way he ambused Heston and something about his public disturbances at a Walmart or Kmart. That's great that he did relief work for Katrina, and it's also great that I haven't heard much about it which means he probably didn't do it for the cameras.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>OK. And that's a fair criticism. I think there are good intentions behind what he does but he does play it fast and loose with the facts sometimes. That causes people to dismiss him who should be listening.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>The reason for my question is most of the time the person says heck no, I haven't watched his trash. They parrot what they have heard from right wing radio or wherever.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>One thing you may not know about MM is how much relief work he did after Katrina. He set up a camp near New Orleans that had hundreds of volunteers based there. And not just for a weekend PR opportunity, either. He was there for weeks. Interestingly enough, he was working closely with veterans groups.