>>>>>>>>If I am reading you correctly, that you have a gay son, then that does alter my perception of you, yes. If there is a God, this must be one of His little pranks. By your own words you still consider it abnormal, make gay jokes, and say you wouldn't tolerate it in your home. (That would be his home, too, wouldn't it?) And repeat that homosexuals are not entitled to marriage. I'm not going to go on arguing with you, I just find your position even more curious now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In my home, I'm the dictator. I would not let my unmarried daughter have a friend over for the night for a fling any more than I'd let my son do the same. It's not his home, its mine! I've been divorced for 10 years now, and while my sons were staying with me last summer, I had noone over to the apartment while they were here. It works both ways in my mind. Uncomfortability goes both ways....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Fair enough. But your daughter may marry some day and then you'll allow her and her husband to share a room. (For all I know, you'll allow it sooner in the relationship.) You seem to be saying that your son will never be able to do that, even when he finds someone he wants to spend the rest of his life with. As I said in another message, I find that terribly sad.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Tamar
>>>>>
>>>>>What is really 'terribly sad', imho, is some people having demeanor to lecture others what they should do in their own homes and how they must interact with kids. It just shows that real liberals are not satisfied with own lifestyle, they want pushing it down the throat of other people. In other words, conservatives respect any house autonomy; liberals want to have any house liberal.
>>>>
>>>>It also says a lot about why current generations of kids have no morals at all, and in general behave like packs of animals.
>>>>
>>>>No rules, dude.
>>>
>>>If you think that my kids were raised with no rules, you should talk to them. We set rules and high (though not unreasonable) expectations, and dealt with infractions as needed. The result: two college graduates who are kind, considerate, and hope to leave the world a better place than they found it.
>>>
>>>Tamar
>>
>>I suspect that the source of many of our 'non-moral' off spring is that they were raised in a day care/babysitter environment that for the most part mind the kids, but seldom instill basic values for a good life in their hearts and minds. I think that maybe millions of years of evolution produced a mother/child relationship that results in a somewhat well adjusted person in most cases. I am thinking that we are beginning to see the result of our action. I know this is not the popular view and women should certainly have the right to do as they choose with their life, but something seems to be missing. [I'm going to hide behind a tree now to avoid being hit by assorted missles]
>
>Surprise surprise, I'm going to agree with you. However, I don't think it is necessarily the mother/child relationship and supervision, but the "parent" or "related adult" relationship and supervision. It doesn't matter if it is the mother or the child or an aunt or an uncle. It needs to be someone who is 'vested' in the child's growth and has the authority to uphold the parents' structure and rules and actually cares about the future of the child and child's wellbeing. I have to add that I have seen many many (too many to count) kids whose mother stayed home to watch the children, but who took the freedom approach to raising their kids. They didn't provide structure and rules and those kids are maniacs today and some are no longer with us. Would it have turned out differently if they parented differently? We might not ever know.

I also wanted to add one change to Grady's idea: it is not only mother, it is father too, i.e. both parents have responsibilities to their kids. Unfortunately, too many people prefer talk more about 'rights' and 'privileges' and less about responsibility. The latter inevitably includes being tough sometimes.