>>Thanks, William, but I'm bowing out of this discussion....anyone who doesn't fundamentally believe that the proper role of government is the protection of citizens, is going to have a hard time understanding this.
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>>>the proper role of government is the protection of citizens >>
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>That's an interesting thought.
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>By that standard, Switzerland has had and continues to have, one of the best government in history, and the US one of the worst.
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>Swittzerland has had relatively few losses, while throughout its history, the US has rarely gone 50 years without some major conflict that costs the lives of thousands of its citizens.
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>The presidents many Americans revere most - Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt presided over the slaughter of millions of American citizens.
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>I got a chance to see some first hand in one of the "conflicts" and I don't commend it to anyone.
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>On the other hand, presidents we tend to disparage - Grant, Harding, Hoover, etc, lost few if any.
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>The notion that we haven't been attacked since 9/11 is true, but there's more to the story.
>Since 9/11 more than 4K of our citizens died in Iraq and Afghanistan and more than 40K have been maimed.
>The 9/11 deaths were the result of choices made by non-Americans.
>The ensuing deaths were the result of conscious choices made right here in the US.
>To call it Bush's war is much too simple.
>The congress voted overwhelmingly to have our citizens slaughtered and maimed in Iraq and Afghanistan.
>Bush was re-elected handlily after that war was well underway and people were being lost daily.
>With some rare exceptions, the entire country was behind that invasion, and most Americans still think that the American invasion and occupation of Afghanistan is good policy.
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>So while >>the proper role of government is the protection of citizens >> is a good notion, it doesnt seem to have the popular notion in American history, so maybe we ought to be trying to find a to make that notion more prevalent here.
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You bet - Wilson was good with that. So was Chamberlain.

Worked very well. Cower, ignore threats and whine is a great way to move forward.

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