>>>>>> You cannot insult any religion
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>>>>>>Metin, I only insult people like Michael Jackson who take their "freak show persona" and publicize it. I insult people like Jerry Falwell and other public evangelists as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>i'm not a supporter of religion in general, becuase it's based on faith and mysticism, as opposed to reason, science, logic, and experience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I support anyone's right to believe as they wish, so long as they respect the liberties of others. These days it is Islamic fundamentalist terrorist that I have the greaest issue with, along with nation/states that promote terrorism.
>>>>>
>>>>>This quite amazes me to defend faith. I am not a believer, any more than you are, just giving it a try in the hope it will remove my compulsion to drink. Just don't dismiss it so airily. There are many scientists and otherwise smart people who believe. Even as an unbeliever, the concept of faith attracted me.
>>>>
>>>>I think it takes much more faith to be an unbeliever. How can you look at the intricacies of the universe and not see a grand architect?
>>>
>>>Because seeing a grand architect leads to the inevitable question of where the architect came from. Whatever you think the original of the universe is, at some point, you end up saying "this was always there" and using that as your starting point. For you, it's a god. For others, it's the universe itself.
>>>
>>>Tamar
>>
>>Okay, so where did the universe come from? At some point you have to say there are things that we cannot understand, and there is where faith comes in. Unbelievers in a diety have faith there is none. Believers have faith there is. I believe in a grand architech and expect I will one day come to understand.
>
>John - you didn't read what I wrote. Whether it's God or the universe or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, at some point as you think about it, you reach the question "Where did ______ come from?" You're choosing to simply accept that there's a God who is the architect of the rest, and you're not asking the question "Where did God come from?"
>
>Tamar

Oh no, I got that. It's just an unanswerable question. I'm simply saying a creation demands a creator, no matter what IT is. The intracacies of the universe tell me there was an extremely intelligent force behind the creation. It couldn't have been happenstance.