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26/08/2009 12:56:12
 
 
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26/08/2009 12:42:59
Information générale
Forum:
Visual FoxPro
Catégorie:
Conférences & événements
Versions des environnements
Visual FoxPro:
VFP 9 SP2
OS:
Vista
Database:
Visual FoxPro
Divers
Thread ID:
01419706
Message ID:
01420873
Vues:
50
>>>>>>Peter, you are asking questions about 1000 years tradition. One may investigate one man behavior to find earthly reasons. Questioning multi-generational traditions will never find common ground in rational terms.
>>>>>
>>>>>Good analysis.
>>>>>
>>>>>>In regards to your specific questions, studying Torah was/is considered very positive (the most positive usage of Sabbat time), and saying openly (by observant Jew) that he does not study Torah, or consider it excessive/dull would be similar to this person appearing in public place without pants. You see, it is not criminal, it is just not publicly acceptable.
>>>>>
>>>>>Again, good analysis.
>>>>>
>>>>>>Moving issue has different levels of compliance with commandements. General rule allows unrestricted moving on foot, but special restrictions are allowed too, i.e. there is no limit in self-improvement. Certain communities can make own rules that they will not move beyond certain lines; it could be considered as a sign of additional piety. Again, I am not aware what kind of special rules were common in Amsterdam.
>>>>>
>>>>>And again, good analysis.
>>>>>
>>>>>These were all useful remarks. But should they lead to the conclusion that any criticisms of such traditions and rules are improper or only allowed to be made by insiders?
>>>>
>>>>Sure, not. I would just say that these remarks could be better categorized as observations, not as criticisms. The latter word indicates push for alternatives.
>>>
>>>Yes, your observations were not criticisms. For me the quest was: Can an individual not be criticized if the behavior is driven by 'multi-generational traditions'?
>>
>>Naturally, it depends on traditions. If the latter are not invasive, i.e. assume voluntary compliance and not forced on 'non-believers', then criticism would be excessive, imo. 'Forced' in previous phrase, means legislative and/or crowd pressure. Naturally, one may also talk about family pressure, but I don't think that society should usurp this function. It is better to leave it as it is.
>
>And again wise words. I like your insights more and more. :)
>But hey, one more try: It requires at least some debate - time and again - to find out whether or not something is invasive, esp. according to 'modern' ideas. We criticize muslim multi-generational traditions (here in Europe), but opponents often try to silence those critics with the counter-ciriticism that the christian and jewish traditions also have their 'idiosyncrasies'. And to a certain extend they are right. We expect muslims to rethink some of their ideas. Shouldn't orthodox jews do the same?

AFAIK, the negative reactions against muslim traditions are mostly caused by beheadings, bombings and similar terrorist acts. Naturally, it is wrong to equate all muslim traditions to this inappropriate behavior, and, accordingly, counter-criticism mentioned in your post loses ground; i.e. when christian and/or jewish traditionalists will be engaged in beheadings, bombing and similar terrorist activity then they should be subjected to the same expectations to rethink some of their ideas. More specifically, orthodox jews should do the same (i.e. rethink), when/if they will start doing the same, in this strict order.
Edward Pikman
Independent Consultant
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