>>>>>>>>>>>>>Does this mean we can finally put to rest the old canard "torture does not work."?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/08/did_they_work.asp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>http://oceanaris.wordpress.com/2009/08/24/obama-vs-cheney-round-two/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>It's still something civilized nations all agreed not to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>That was not the question.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>No, but it is the point. We had no business doing some of the stuff we did the past several years.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Sure we did, it allowed you to sleep peacefully at night without bombs blowing up in your neighborhood.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I'm not sure I believe that. What I do believe is it was extremely arrogant to turn our backs on international agreements against torture (whoops, sorry, enhanced interrogation techniques) that had been in place for decades. No wonder we are hated. We think the rules don't have to apply to us.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Do people 'hating us' prioritize these rules? Please, take my question in correct perspective: are you sure that their hatred caused by our (perceived by you) non-compliance with rules (that they likely despise) or by something else?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The torturing certainly did not enhance our reputation anywhere. In general I think it's more the arrogance that ticks people off. To me it is unseemly for a rich and powerful nation to revel in the role of Goliath.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You know, I could give 2 flips about what the French, Dutch, Norwegian, etc... think. When they are beheading Americans its time to get tough. That's something the left doesn't understand.
>>>>
>>>>It's tempting to not reply to a post about "the left." Do you seriously believe only the pugnacious get it about national security?
>>>>
>>>>Dissing all the critics of our policies in other countries is exactly the attitude I was talking about.
>>>
>>>Absolutely I believe it. On slick willy's watch, they bombed our Embassies, bombed our Naval ships and he didn't do anything about it, which led the terrorists to believe that America was soft and could be hit hard which led direcctly to 9/11. The left doesn't get it and I doubt seriously if Obama has the cojones to pull the trigger against Iran when it achieve nuclear armament.
>>
>>Remind me, John, during whose tenure did 9/11 occur? I seem to recall it was Bush, down in Crawford for a month ignoring intelligence reports. Pretty "slick" to blame it on Clinton.
>>
>>Just to be clear, I think it could have happened on any President's watch. The Arab world has hated us for a while.
>
>
>Reread my post. It was Clinton's indecision and perceived weakness that led to 9/11. Bush had been in office 10 months. It took that long to train the pilots in Florida. Bush had zip to do with it, it was Clinton...... however, deep you want to stick your head in the liberal sand, it was Clinton...

I don't think it was either of them fault. Please see my reply to Kevin.

PS -- Bush had been in office less than 8 months.