>>>>>>
>>>>>>We should get out now.
>>>>>
>>>>>Mike, I'm sure the theory is that if WE get out, the Taliban will fill the void that is left and take over the country again, allowing Al Qieda to train more idiots for another attack on the US.
>>>>
>>>>That theory does not hold. There will be always some god forsaken place on earth to be used as training camps.
>>>>If that is the idea, then US should occupy half of Africa, huge parts of lower Asia, invade the rest of middle east and so for.
>>>>It was wrong to go there at first place;
>>>>There was nothing ground troops (occupation) could have done there that hi-tech secret services / special forces
>>>>could not achieve in terms of battling various groups. (If that was the idea)
>>>>
>>>>Ironically, it is now also wrong to simply walk out from there just like that. And to be worse
>>>>If US stay there for 5 more years, all they gonna manage is to turn half Pakistan into a Talibakistan.
>>>>
>>>>Therefore I agree with Mike.
>>>>Well organised and decisive withdrawal does not seem to me bad idea at all.
>>>>If 'democracy' (Karzai) cannot hold its roots there, then perhaps soil is just not ready. I doubt that more bloodsheds are going to
>>>>turn that desert into a flower garden any time soon. (Unless of course, you mistake poppy seeds plantations for flower gardens {g} )
>>>>That aint it, and it is sure not worthed staying for. Karzai will be gonne sooner or later anyway, so what is the point of staying there
>>>>forever. Whatever happen there afterwards would happen anyway, the very moment US leaves.
>>>>
>>>>There will be civil war first, then there will be peace. And that is exactly what is needed there. Peace.
>>>>Cooling & Calming of the whole region. Then you let Tc.H & Charles.H ex colleagues do their jobs :)
>>>
>>>Well, I think that if NATO withdraws, the locals will tell themselves they are victorious. And an early withdrawal will mean a loss of honor for NATO it the eyes of the Taliban. But NATO will not leave. A nice gesture for the Taliban is to help the Americans and NATO to decide to leave by presenting to them, the heads of Bin Laden, Zawaheri and Moolah Omar. Once that is done, it will be easy for the Americans to walk away.
>>
>>That will never happen.
>>Osama BL will more likely die from kidney problems or something like that.
>>
>>Besides why stay inn, when you can always have 'Take-Away' Victory. Massive surge, then world media showing little movies of numerous destroyed training camps (the same camps shown to justify war) and there you go.
>>Victory is all in the eye of beholder. {g}
>
>There is no victory for the U.S. there. We should cut our losses.
>
>I had a dream about Obama being assassinated. They have occurred before but never this specifically. It was a really weird dream. (Aren't they all? -- a glimpse of our secret thoughts). I was over the right shoulder of the assassin. His rifle was out an open window. He said with this scope he might as well be you. Obama stepped out of the car and the assassin put the first bullet right through his forehead. I reached to stop him but too late. Then the dream cut to a state funeral with Jackie Kennedy leading the way in her black veil.
>

Weird indeed. Perhaps subconcience fear. This story has been in the air before he was even ellected.
Situation in US got kind of tense lately, with all those riffle gun guys strolling around council houses. Protesters clashing etc.

As for Afganistan. Agree completely.
US/UK got much better things to do (or worse problems to solve), then bleed dry babysitting Karzai.