>I'm not sure that starting with a specific framework (any framework) would be a good idea if the end intention is to get a job on the open market.
>
>It would mean either narrowing your options to hirers who are using the framework or learning how to handle a lot of 'nitty-gritty' that the framework previously shielded you from.....

I agree. My initial asp.net experience was with a framework (mere mortals) - I found myself absolutely dependant on it because I didn't understand asp.net. A seriously bad position.

I dropped the framework, learned ASP.NET, and feel very confident in my abilities.

Personally I found ASP.NET (the entire web application concept) foreign enough that books were not enough. I invested in a 1 week hands on asp.net/C# course from http://www.traininghott.com/ which I can't say enough good things about. I finally had a class where the instructor could really explain what I didn't understand (not what a book assumes I don't undertand). I was off and running after that.


>
>>I think you really have to ask yourself first about your own learning style. I think that is key to picking a path. Personally, sitting in a classroom or going to conferences are not useful. I like books, I like video tutorials I can go through at my own pace. ( seriously considered dropping $1500 for the on demand stuff at Pluralsight )
>>
>>I like working one on one with a mentor because I can guide my own training in the direction of what I need.
>>
>> I also believe in deciding at what level I wan to jump in. I am bored with plumbing so I like frameworks so i can concentrate on business related software challenges rather than the mechanics of contention, security, localization, best practices for data access etc. In VFP that meant VFE and in .NET it means Strataframe and in both case that allowed me to get very very productive quickly at a level I could not have achieved if I had been working with the respective languages "out of the box"
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>>I found a very smart guy who was about two years ahead of me and I use him about 4 hours a week on Logmein sessions to guide me through the stuff I'm not getting, show me tips and tricks and answer questions and now to work with me on client applications.
>>
>>The thing I am enjoying the most is that in the .NET world the on-line resources are stunning. If I'm coding at 1 am and can't remember how to convert and arraylist to a List(of T) I Google that and have code to look at in microseconds. If I have something really hairy I punch it in to Stackoverflow and answers come back at Sergey speed.
>>
>>But everyone learns differently . I know a lot of very smart developers who thrive on intense classroom situations and seem to do quite well eschewing frameworks to write all their own stuff from the ground up. Horses for courses.
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>>I think the important thing in learning .NET is to USE .NET. Take a project you've done before, where you completely understand the business logic and then start doing it in.NET.
>>
>>
>>>Well, it has been 11.5 months since my lay-off last year. I am realizing that I should have done things differently a few years ago, such as getting on with .NET training, studying, work, etc. And, I found out that I'm not dead yet, so I can still learn, and the evidence is that I am still breathing, thinking, and out of work. Other evidence that learning can be done in my 50's is evidenced by those gentlemen and women here on UT who went from Visual FoxPro into .NET and learned it and are already successful with it, no matter their age.
>>>
>>>So, this leaves me with a decision. Do I now go into debt to learn some things quickly, putting myself into a structured learning environment, or do I stay at home and try to learn in an unstructured environment full of a million interruptions (my wife, the kids, grandpa, and everyone else)? At first, I wanted no more debt and would not even consider it, but as one day after another passes and employers do not call me and say, "We've got to have you now!" then I know that I must change something. Do I go the slower route where I train myself for free except for the cost of books and some videos I have, or do I go the faster route, and go into debt, but get the reward sooner? With this economy tanking, sooner might be better.
>>>
>>>I would choose to go the faster route, since what I am doing isn't working for me, not as fast as I need to go. Of course, this means going back into debt to finance the training. Oh boy,...Maybe some of that stimulus money can be used for retraining? Oh, I'm sorry, that went to the bankers. Forget that then!
>>>
>>>What I need to know is who on UT is offering .NET and/or SQL Server training. I know Kevin Goff is offering SQL Server training and I may yet take him up on it.
>>>
>>>Also, what are your opinions on costly training? is it really worth it to learn faster and put yourself into debt?
>>>
>>>Cecil