It's working.

>Yep - Bin Laden's goal is to bankrupt the USA.
>
>>I take your point, but I don't think a Yemeni or Saudi who is not part of any army in the Geneva convention sense, out of uniform in Afghanistan is a protected class of any kind.
>>
>>And I don't think whatever we do with such people will effect one whit the treatment of Americans in similar circumstances. Having been in bad places "out of uniform" I can tell you the Geneva Convention was never even considered as any kind of "protection". Dealing with the Soviets there was an understanding that pieces would be traded but dealing with those seeking martyrdom you don't have a lot of bargaining leverage. The "suffering" of their brothers in captivity is only relevant in how that suffering makes *us* feel.
>>
>>It is important to understand that in this type of asymetric conflict our behavior in no way effects the behavior of the other side except in that it points out a vulnerability - the Holder judicial approach and the failure to red-flag Hasan for fear of hurting someone's feelings (or of litigation) being two cases in point. See my post to Tracy on "playing black".
>>
>>I would have 20 scary looking people praying and denouncing The Great Satan in every departure area of every airport in America bankrupting American airlines and the TSAA with lawsuits. Let 100,000 jihadis get caught with plans, vests, semtex whatever so they have to be put through the Federal Court system and then Federal Prisons and use media to prick the bien pesants into agonizing over the incarceration rates of young Muslim men while those men evangelized fellow-inmates to awaken them to their victim status so everyone could go out and geometrically expand the cycle. Far more effective than flying planes into buildings.
>>
>>They've got some folks who know how to think this way ... just watch.
>>
>>
>>>Is the reverse true also? When an American is captured on a battlefield is it then also ok to just eliminate that threat? Remember when answering that question, that Americans are the ones in battlefields in other people's countries, not the other way around.
>>>
>>>This is one of the things that has always bothered me about the Omar Khadr 'trial'. Even presuming he threw the grenade (which it appears he probably did not do); I've seen enough people here saying that if someone came into their house with a gun they wouldn't hesitate to shoot the intruder. Khadr does exactly that, goes on trial for murder, and those same people think that's just peachy. Weird.
>>>
>>>>Yeah, that one brought me up short too. And that is exactly the problem with the whole presumption of innocence. On a battlefield the presumption is the enemy is hostile, a threat to your life and you are required to use lethal force to protect yourself and your comrades.
>>>>
>>>>In Eric Holder's universe, we need to Mirandize everyone we shoot at for fear that if they are only wounded and survive we will not be able to obtain a conviction. ( Next we will also need to apologize first and assure them they are not being profiled as a member of a victim class to protect ourselves from being accused of a "hate crime" )
>>>>
>>>>I don' see these guys as prisoners of war or criminals. I see them as imminent threats to be eliminated. If we are not sure enough about them to just take their pieces off the board with no regrets we have no business holding them the way we have.
>>>>
>>>>Horses for courses, obviously. American citizens who are not captured on a battlefield are entitled to all the protection of our law. Enemies out of uniform in time of war ... there's a *lot* of precedent on that one. Guilt is prima facie.
>>>>
>>>>>>Eric Holder may turn out to be Obama's Rumsfeld. I do not predict a good outcome in this more than bone-headed decision.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704888404574547681569546414.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
>>>>>
>>>>>I agree with the writer that most of the questions asked by the reps were reasonable, but for one. What in heaven's name kind of question is this: How can we be assured that these enemies will be found guilty?
>>>>>
>>>>>Is this why they want a military trial? In order to assure a guilty verdict? Why bother with a trial at all - civil or military? Just pronounce them guilty and be done with it.