>>>>>>>>>>http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/12/06/us.afghanistan.karzai/index.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>This makes steam come out of my ears. Are eight years and untold billions of dollars not patience enough? Here is the leader of one of the most corrupt governments in the world, the "winner" of an election this fall that was so crooked it would have made the old Soviets blush, and he's lecturing us. Unbelievable.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Someone please remind me why we care about Afghanistan beyond taking out the terrorists who are there. We can do that without having to put up with lectures from tinhorn dictators.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Don't be angry him. He just the "voice of his master". Read this article: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2009/08/20/saigon_2009
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Taliban will be next at Afghanistan. Noone can change that truth.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Well, we can. Obama and other U.S. officials are already putting pressure on both Afghanistan and Pakistan, where the Taliban have been retreating to resupply. Obama told the Pakistani president directly that if they don't do anything about the Taliban in his country, we will. I agree with him that we have spent too much time screwing around with countries that take our money and then do little or nothing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You already did someting at Pakistan. You killed civillians...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Some, Sorry about that. It wouldn't happen if Al Qaeda fighters didn't hide among them.
>>>>>
>>>>>You're right. Very unreasonable of them to conceal themselves like that. Maybe we should do a deal, they stop hiding amongst the civilian population and our guys wear day glo jackets with targets on the back.
>>>>
>>>>Actually our guys wear uniforms ( except for a few of maybe the most effective <s>) If they would wear uniforms too that would probably cover it.
>>>>
>>>>Asymetric warfare is a fascinating thing.
>>>>No moral high ground. Just war - there can never be anything "moral" about that. You just try win and get it over with.
>>>
>>>Fascinating ?? What exactly is the fascinating in a bloody mess there ??
>>>Ugly (as all wars are) - yes.
>>>
>>>What I never understood is why keep ground troops (moving green targets) instead of keeping it all 'asymetric'
>>>
>>>If Al-Qaeda and Taliban are mixed with local population (true for Taliban perhaps, less for AQ which are foreign commandoes)
>>>then why not confront them with commandoes (agents) dressed as civilians?
>>>Instead Obama is sending 30.000 brand new occupiers for locals to shoot at. Why for crying out loud ???
>>>
>>>Casualties will naturally increase on both sides, but how about actual results ?
>>>Will this eradicate taliban? - Absolutely NO.
>>>Will this eradicate AQ ? - Maybe, but focused undercover operation could have done it already.
>>>(and they are already dissapearing, mysteriosely as they appeared)
>>>
>>>So what is the point in staying there militarily/financially another 15 years?
>>>(Karzai already made his request for 'user support' another 5 years (+10 years financially!)
>>>
>>>Is it all for the sake of Karzai implementing western style democracy on a tribal (11 century) community/mentality,
>>>or staying present in Afganistan for another 15-20 years is the simply goal in itself ?
>>>
>>
>>I will be shocked if we are there for anything close to the 15-20 years Karzai says he wants. He is dreaming.
>
>Right now, I would be surprised if US pool out from there in less then 5 years at least. Unfortunately Obama bought (or was forced) into folowing CIA/Military lead into yet another disaster. I did have some hope he will have some strenght to break away from all that,
>but he is apparently powerless. (Just as any recent US president for that matter).
>BTW, I could not believe he coined Bush wars as 'Just'.
>I wld not be surprised if I had heard Bill Clinton saying such a nonsense with his great smile, charm & confidence {g}, but it came as great dissapointment hearing it from Obama :( He is surelly not the first (or last) politician to justify war, but he is certainly the first doing it at Nobel price for peace acceptance ceremony.
>Paints very sad picture all together.

I truly is sad when any war if fought. The general train of thought in the west is that if they quit the war and bring the troops home:

1. The Taliban, Al Qaida and the middle eastern countries will only see the U.S./NATO withdrawl as a victory.
2. The alleged victory will only serve to encourage the Taliban, Al Qaida and middle eastern countries to push harder to destroy the USA.
3. The likelyhood of another severe attack such as the World Trade center 911 event would be increased several fold.

So you see, Obama really doesn't have much of a choice. Strangely, if the Taliban would just stop fighting (I didn't say surrender) then Afghanistan would get new schools and hospitals as well as other needed structures. New roads and bridges and as stable a government as they could muster. Then the NATO forces would go home.