>>>>>>>>>>>
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/12/06/us.afghanistan.karzai/index.html>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>This makes steam come out of my ears. Are eight years and untold billions of dollars not patience enough? Here is the leader of one of the most corrupt governments in the world, the "winner" of an election this fall that was so crooked it would have made the old Soviets blush, and he's lecturing us. Unbelievable.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Someone please remind me why we care about Afghanistan beyond taking out the terrorists who are there. We can do that without having to put up with lectures from tinhorn dictators.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Don't be angry him. He just the "voice of his master". Read this article:
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2009/08/20/saigon_2009>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Taliban will be next at Afghanistan. Noone can change that truth.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Well, we can. Obama and other U.S. officials are already putting pressure on both Afghanistan and Pakistan, where the Taliban have been retreating to resupply. Obama told the Pakistani president directly that if they don't do anything about the Taliban in his country, we will. I agree with him that we have spent too much time screwing around with countries that take our money and then do little or nothing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You already did someting at Pakistan. You killed civillians...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Some, Sorry about that. It wouldn't happen if Al Qaeda fighters didn't hide among them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You're right. Very unreasonable of them to conceal themselves like that. Maybe we should do a deal, they stop hiding amongst the civilian population and our guys wear day glo jackets with targets on the back.
>>>>>
>>>>>Actually our guys wear uniforms ( except for a few of maybe the most effective <s>) If they would wear uniforms too that would probably cover it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Asymetric warfare is a fascinating thing.
>>>>>No moral high ground. Just war - there can never be anything "moral" about that. You just try win and get it over with.
>>>>
>>>>Fascinating ?? What exactly is the fascinating in a bloody mess there ??
>>>>Ugly (as all wars are) - yes.
>>>>
>>>>What I never understood is why keep ground troops (moving green targets) instead of keeping it all 'asymetric'
>>>>
>>>>If Al-Qaeda and Taliban are mixed with local population (true for Taliban perhaps, less for AQ which are foreign commandoes)
>>>>then why not confront them with commandoes (agents) dressed as civilians?
>>>>Instead Obama is sending 30.000 brand new occupiers for locals to shoot at. Why for crying out loud ???
>>>>
>>>>Casualties will naturally increase on both sides, but how about actual results ?
>>>>Will this eradicate taliban? - Absolutely NO.
>>>>Will this eradicate AQ ? - Maybe, but focused undercover operation could have done it already.
>>>>(and they are already dissapearing, mysteriosely as they appeared)
>>>>
>>>>So what is the point in staying there militarily/financially another 15 years?
>>>>(Karzai already made his request for 'user support' another 5 years (+10 years financially!)
>>>>
>>>>Is it all for the sake of Karzai implementing western style democracy on a tribal (11 century) community/mentality,
>>>>or staying present in Afganistan for another 15-20 years is the simply goal in itself ?
>>>>
>>>
>>>I will be shocked if we are there for anything close to the 15-20 years Karzai says he wants. He is dreaming.
>>
>>Right now, I would be surprised if US pool out from there in less then 5 years at least. Unfortunately Obama bought (or was forced) into folowing CIA/Military lead into yet another disaster. I did have some hope he will have some strenght to break away from all that,
>>but he is apparently powerless. (Just as any recent US president for that matter).
>>BTW, I could not believe he coined Bush wars as 'Just'.
>>I wld not be surprised if I had heard Bill Clinton saying such a nonsense with his great smile, charm & confidence {g}, but it came as great dissapointment hearing it from Obama :( He is surelly not the first (or last) politician to justify war, but he is certainly the first doing it at Nobel price for peace acceptance ceremony.
>>Paints very sad picture all together.
>
>Unsurprisingly, I have a more positive view of Obama's position. None of the options he has available in Afghanistan are good ones. If he pulls us out quickly there will be a howling chorus of "cut and run." If he lets it be known we will hang around until every last person is satisfied, it really will be failing to learn from the lessons of Vietnam. Personally I think splitting the difference may prove to be the wise decision. He had to get the attention of Afghanistan and Pakistan, which he did. My very strong suspicion is he knows about some things you and I don't about where key Al Qauda and Taliban leaders are. Now that he has taken the diplomatic gloves off, no one can complain too loudly if we go in and take them off the board, by whatever means necessary. If that happens it will end a lot of the hand-wringing about our mission there.
>
>He didn't start this war, he inherited it -- thanks, pardner -- but now with the 30,000 troop surge it is his war. I give him credit for acting as such. He is many things to many people, but one thing he is not is a whiner. Nearly a year into his presidency, even with some disappointments and an opposition whose vociferousness has surprised me, I am still glad he is our leader. The grades are not in yet. He has taken on several major initiatives and we don't know yet how any of them are going to turn out. "Wait and see" isn't always a copout. In this case I think it's the reasonable outlook.
>
>The Peace Prize was very strange. Even Obama concedes he hasn't earned it yet. Not to mention the irony of the leader of a country fighting two wars accepting a peace prize. If you read what he said, though, he did not sound happy in any way to be at war. He said they are sometimes necessary. His long term hope is clearly for peace.
>
>Here is an example of what he has to deal with. There was some tut-tutting from the Norwegians that he quickly returned to Washington and didn't stay in Copenhagen for the traditional post-ceremony events. Just a couple of months ago he was reamed by some in the U.S. for leaving Washington for a day and a half to try to bring the 2016 Olympics to the U.S. "How can he POSSIBLY gallivant off to Europe when the health care and Afghanistan debates are at a key moment?!" Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Another thing I like about him is that he doesn't seem thin skinned about it. He has a healthy sense of humor and a great wife, which I'm sure help.
What do you think would happen if he just pooled troops out of Afganistan and ORDERED CIA chief to catch Osama BL in
6 months (or pack his bags and go) ? If there is no results in 6 months get another CIA/FBI chiefs and so for.
Eventually someone would deliver.
CIA spent DECADES being present in Afganistan, so what is their balance sheet to show off by now? If they cannot catch chief of pyramidal terror organisation (who by now went as far as selling franchises around middle east !) then they are just simply incompetent. Yet all you see is bunch of arrogant stone wall faces (Talbot,Gates etc) who walk and talk how 'grief' is security situation, and how they prevented this or that attack, but nobody ever manages to do anything substantial. That devil OsamaBL is somehow always one step ahead of them; Gimme a break !! With all that satellites, drones etc.
How does AQ communicate, by sending pidgeons as messangers? CIA has no enough Arab speaking undercover agents who could penetrate it ? Police manages to place undercover cops to the very tops of mafia families, where everybody is blood related, but CIA cannot come even close to heads of organisation which is actively recruiting and training armies of strangers to fight ??
As for army, If anybody complain about pooling out troops out of Afganistan, Obama should simply ignore them (or offer free plain tickets to Kabul {g}) War was wrong to begin with, so quitting it would surelly have more supporters then those who oppose it.
Army simply never had any business being there.
Someone gotta break this loosing streak and get things back in some sort of order. This theatre of scarecrows, hype, fears and
false security as only things that dominate politics, simply needs to end. Therea much more important things to solve in US
with economy surelly topping that list.
Obama promised 'change', but so far all we have seen is change of face who does speaking for the exactly the same line of politics.
