I think we have pushed the analogies as far as we can, Hank ;-)

Your point about specific instances is valid.

>It's hard to make money while your stomach is churning <s> ... both companies where I work/consult are doing very well, even in the economic downturn. If they had spent the money to convert to .Net, they would be out of business. both in terms of money spent, and in terms of time-to-market. Both companies are selling SQL Server based solutions; both companies have customers using the older DBF-based solutions who are happy with what they have, including some large enterprises. Generalities often do not fit the specific instance, of course. In terms of the general job market, your analogy applies.
>
>I, for one, have always enjoyed the old wooden-frame roller coasters. The mono-rail ones are nice too, but there's something special about the jerks as you go around the corners. Others must too, because they have been making a comeback for the past 10 to 15 years, at least. There might be a further analogy here, if VFP.Net gets done. <s>
>
>>Better to be on a ride that's moving than one that's dismantled in a warehouse somewhere ;-)
>>
>>>And in small but important ways, it happens within the .Net ecology. Think "stored procedures are good" in .Net 1.1 to "stored procedures limit scalability" now (the latter being what SQL Gurus have been saying for 10 years at least). Think of ado.net to Entity Framework, Linq2SQL to , well, maybe Linq2SQL, etc. .Net developers have got to like roller coasters, because they've been on a continuous rollercoaster ride for 8 years regarding data access. Well, I guess riding a surfboard on those big waves is pretty much the same, which might explain why I see you diving into each new technology as it comes around. As they say here in Kentucky, Bless Your Heart. <s>
>>>
>>>Hank
>>>
>>>>Uh, of course <s>...
>>>>
>>>>I suppose this should be pretty obvious to anyone: It doesn't matter which plaform you choose ultimately you as a developer you are dependent on the 'producers' of that platform and their vision whether it's Microsoft or some soft pedaling Open Source consortium. Regardless of choice you can get 'stranded' with old tech or abandoned when the folks in charge lose interest or go off to greener pastures.
>>>>
>>>>I think a lot of folks on this forum feel personally spited by Microsoft for discontinuing FoxPro even as its popularity nose dived years before the plug was actually pulled. I think you can hardly blame Microsoft for no longer wanting to support this product when even the lead loyal and dedicated lead developers were starting to lose faith and were rapidly redeploying inside of Microsoft.
>>>>
>>>>I understand that feeling of sitting on a sinking ship. I've been through it a few times in my career and it sucks royally, but I would argue that by the time it gets to that point it's actually a good thing to get tossed off the boat and into the cold reality beyond...
>>>>
>>>>+++ Rick ---
>>>>
>>>>>Hi Jess,
>>>>>
>>>>>re: dependency on MS, and MS controlling your future.
>>>>>
>>>>>That is so obviously true that I can't imagine how you would support the opposite side of the question. Ask not just the VFP developers of 2004, but the VB developers of 2004.
>>>>>
>>>>>Now, whether that is a bad thing is another matter entirely. Python is a great language; an argument can be made that of the non-Functional languages, it is the best conceived language (it should be: this was the initial consideration in creating it, if you've read Guido's writings on it) and is at least as well implemented as any of the others. Their PEP process, through which changes enter the language, is a model for all other languages to follow (but you will be a long time waiting to breathe if you hold your breath waiting for MS to adopt a similar process).
>>>>>
>>>>>And no matter how great Python is (it is one of the few official languages at Google, Yahoo, etc.), ISV's who sell to a range of customers from mom-and-pop's to mid-level corporations are more competitive when using MS products. It's all about perceived safety, from the customer's perspective. The customers at that level (and above, actually, in my limited experience there) don't care whether you are using an old-fashioned file drop or MSMQ or WCF or Biztalk (well, they might care if you use BizTalk because of the exorbitant licensing fee and the need to allocate another server). They are concerned about sleeping at night, thinking (wrongly -- the number of bugs in MS Products and OpenSource products is roughly the same; and OpenSource bugs average pretty much just as long as MS bugs in terms of time to being fixed.) that using a product built on the Microsoft technology stack is the safest way to go.
>>>>>
>>>>>So, you can make the case that Microsoft offers the most efficient development experience (thanks as much to 3rd-party vendors as to MS -- think ReSharper, think Intragistics and Telerik, think nHibernate or Habanero, etc.), and you can make the case that Microsoft keeps trying to get it right (I was told 4 years ago that it would be the 5th or 6th version of Visual Studio -- VS2010 is the 5th -- before VS had incorporated most of the features of VFP). If they make that goal for VS2012 or whatever it will be, I will be surprised and happy. Anyway, you can make all these claims, and support them in a reasonable fashion. But you can't claim that your future isn't controlled by MS. That's a bet, a wager, that you (and I) are making, that our basis for making a living, and in my case at least the competitive edge I've had in customized development tools, won't be flushed down the drain the same way that VFP and VB were. I think it's a good bet for a variety of reasons (the .Net infrastructure is so large that abandoning it would be extremely difficult), but it's something over which you and I and all the other developers have no control.
>>>>>
>>>>>Hank
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Now that you're no longer dependent on MS, do you think you're totally free. No. You're becoming dependent into something which happens to be not an MS thing. And if someone decides to make use of MS product, it doesn't mean MS holds control of his/her future.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I also have a good grasp on PHP, but .NET is what makes us rich.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Jesse,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I do not want to be rude as well. But these comments show you have not paid python the kind of attention it deserves. Even if you prefer to stick to an MS-only environment. Which of course may make a lot of sense. Python belongs to a completely different league. On a lot of grounds. Including non technical ones. The way the software architecture is evolved is both effective and, I am looking for an adequate wording, both convivial and vivacious:)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Francois,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>My statement is not about Phython which I have nothing against. I just stated my view against his view of dependency on MS products and MS taking hold of his future just because he's using them which to me is not correct. Well, it's his feelings against mine which is not a big deal I think. It's just a 2 cents opinion.