snip

>>>>>>>>I see Halladay stumbled his way to a three hit shutout yesterday ;-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Tim Lincecum wound up with a no decision in an almost identical performance his last time out. Bruce Bochy yanked him with one out in the ninth (to tremendous booing), a man on first, and a 4-1 lead. The closer gave it away. It's early but already it looks like these two guys are going to be dueling for the Cy Young.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>UPDATE: Also, you have highlighted numbers in the "Real ERA" column. The numbers in the "MLB ERA" column appear to be correct, based on spot checking. I have no idea what Real ERA is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The "Real ERA" column was my column containing the actual calculations. But as you and Al said, the .1 probably isn't really .1 at all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>But see, this is what I was saying about yanking a pitcher to save his arm. What's the point of talking about a great pitcher if he has to be pulled and turns the game over to relievers who go on to lose the game. The starter's real value then is an average between what he achieves on his own and the relievers who have to come in to replace him. When he can finish the game on his own, then he adds more value because he isn't giving the game to relievers who get blown out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That's the one real kick I had with Cito. He's a pitch counter. That may be ok, even admirable, when we're talking about rookies, but with veterans, let them pitch the game. If they start to get knocked around too much, then ok, yank them, but not before.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I'm not blaming Lincecum for the manager's methods, but if his arm is suspect such that he really shouldn't be allowed to finish games, then his value, imho, is diminished.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Lincecum is an amiable guy but you could tell he was irritated at being yanked. He had thrown only 106 pitches and said he still felt strong. He said the right things as a team guy -- it was great to see us rally and win -- but you know he thought he had another W locked up. It wasn't his decision.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I hope you don't think I have a horse in this race. They are both tremendous pitchers. It bugs me when preferences devolve into one is great and you cheer against the other. We are lucky to have them both.
>>>>>
>>>>>I am certainly not cheering against Lincecum. He's an exceptional pitcher, but he's facing what Doc faced when playing for Gaston. Pitch counters! It diminished Doc's worth then, and it diminishes Lincecum's worth now. He must have been livid at being pulled. With Doc you could never really tell. the guy was always the same. Never seemed excited, never seemed down. I'm really happy for him now that he's playing for someone who seems to truly get it - let the guy pitch when he's pitching well.
>>>>>
>>>>>When it comes down to it, that sort of thing might just decide the Cy Young. It's unfair to Lincecum as it was unfair to Doc.
>>>>>
>>>>>However, having said all that, I should point out that Doc is the better pitcher. ;)
>>>>
>>>>Thank you for pointing that out ;-) I might have been misled by Lincecum having won two Cy Young awards at an age when Halladay was still riding buses in the minors. And being off to a better start statistically this year, as great as Halladay's start has been.
>>>
>>>Always keep in mind that in those 2 years when Lincecum won the Cy Young, Halladay wasn't pitching in the NL.
>>>
>>>Also, who was the last pitcher to have to face the Yanks and Red Sox all year in a very unbalanced schedule and still win the Cy Young? Ah. yes. Very good guess. ;)
>>>
>>
>>And it's not getting easier, with the Rays possibly the best team in baseball this year.
>>
>>I'm sure your tongue was in your cheek when you said Lincecum won the last two Cy Youngs because Halladay was not in the NL, but maybe you should look it up anyway. Lincecum had a better record, lower ERA, and more strikeouts both seasons.
>
>And I repeat, Halladay was pitching a very unbalanced schedule dominated heavily by games against the Yankees and the Red Sox. Lincecum wasn't. Like I say, nothing against Lincecum. He's terrific, but with an easier schedule, it's not unusual to see better stats.

Not continuing the debate, honest. I think we already agreed they are both great pitchers and we are lucky to have them in the majors at the same time. Here is an article about Lincecum you may enjoy. It ran in the NY Times a couple of days ago, in advance of his start against the Mets today.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/07/sports/baseball/07giants.html?scp=1&sq=tim%20lincecum&st=cse

I am definitely an example of a fan who finds himself cheering for the Giants now that Barry Voldemort has slithered from the scene. The new bunch has a lot of appeal. And with Barry Zito pitching like his old self again, their starting rotation is formidable. Other teams aren't going to catch many breaks with Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez, and Zito coming at them four out of five days.