>>>>Well, you've got the Dutch guys, who tend to be pretty liberal, and I fit in pretty well with them. These days, one is often described as the loonie left if one believes that no one should starve while others eat, no one should die from inadequate medical care while others receive it, no one should freeze to death or die of heat stroke while others have shelter. Period. Working or not, immigrant or not, documented or not, addicted or not, criminal or not. My principle is simple: we are all equal in our humanity, and that consideration is primary for me in deciding whether others should get what is needed to survive, and indeed, thrive.
>>>
>>>Sign me up for that "loonie left." I couldn't have said it better.
>>>
>>>Tamar
>>
>>Your beliefs do not work at the macro economical level required to maintain a modern society. What may work in small, dedicated, like-minded communes, will never work for a country. The implementation of your beliefs come with a cost. A cost to quality and not-so-ironically, availability. The implementation of your beliefs, force society to the lowest common denominator in quest of a Utopian notion of "equality". While we are all created equal, the lives we lead ensure that we are not equal. We are all individuals with individual minds and souls who must be allowed to make choices, learn, fail, grow, suffer and succeed of our own free will, lest we stagnate and die as individuals and as a society. To encourage mere existence through subsistence is not humane, it is enslavement.
>
>You missed the point entirely. Neither Hank nor I was suggesting everyone has to be equal,

I disagree.

"My principle is simple: we are all equal in our humanity, and that consideration is primary for me in deciding whether others should get what is needed to survive, and indeed, thrive"

The minimum required for human beings to survive is food, water and shelter. Society's adoption of this principal mandates food, water and shelter to every person. The "thrive" portion establishes a philosophical foundation for further mandates of minimal requirements. What does one require to thrive? Masters level education? Health care? Transport? Computer? Cell phone? The further society progresses technologically the more mandates will be created to keep up.

>simply that there's a baseline below which no one should be allowed to slip.

In a free society, people must be allowed to take risks, enjoy rewards, fail and learn. Mind you, I'm not opposed to the idea of a safety net, however, like the one under a trapeze artist, society must require those caught to move quickly and deliberately to remove themselves from the net to make way for others to be caught.

>Tamar