>(replying to your points in turn)
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>I was referring to won-lost record. That's why I said record, not stats. At the time I wrote that Lincecum's was better. Since then Halladay has had two great starts, both wins, and Lincecum took the loss after getting shelled by the Cubs.
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>I said Halladay's ERA is a run a game lower and directly cited that as the reason I think he is having a better year. Can't you stand agreement? ;-)
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>You and Alan and I have been around the block before about innings pitched. As far as it goes it's a good argument -- unless the pitcher's wing goes south and he goes on the DL or shortens his useful career. Not saying that is true of Halladay, just in general. He is amazingly well conditioned, which may be a factor.

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>I mention only in passing that the Giants' closer, Dan Wilson, is at the top of the NL saves list, so he at least seems unharmed ;-)
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>(A brief riff on baseball luck. Wilson has been terrific this year and has blown only a handful of save opportunities. Two of them were back to back, or maybe in two of three of Lincecum's starts around the beginning of May, really bad blown saves. One of the pleasures of baseball is those statistical quirks. It evens out over a long season but you never know when some journeyman pitcher shuts out the Yankees or a second baseman who bats 8th and hits .260 goes 4-for-5 with 5 ribbies. The other night the elite Red Sox closer Jonathan Papelbon came in with a 3 run lead to start the 9th and gave up 4 runs and the game. If they did more or less the same thing every time, as is the case in individual sports like running, bicycling, swimming, etc. it would be a much less interesting game IMO).
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>Yes, Halladay has better control, we agree again. (Don't get mad! lol). His K's per 9 innings ratio is almost as good this season, although it has not been in the past. Even though this stat is in Lincecum's favor, I consider it a fairly meaningless stat. Maybe even a negative one considering it generally causes you to throw more pitches than the guys who induce ground outs.
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And remember way back when, I said Halladay's far fewer walks was important and you felt it was a meaningless stat? Well, if you want to up a pitch count, throw walks. It also shows that it's not just Halladay's control that is phenomenal, it's his pitch command. No matter what kind of pitch he throws: slider, cutter, curve, change-up, he can find the corners. That's part of what makes him such a good ground ball pitcher. His walk count is amazing.

>Agreed once again on WH/IP. I consider that the best single measure of a pitcher's effectiveness and should have cited it along with the run per game ERA disparity. A pitcher can't control the defense behind him. He can't control the offensive support he receives, which directly impacts W-L record. He can control how many hits and walks he allows in the time he is out there. It's not perfect, because it does not distinguish the magnitude of hits -- a home run counts no more against you than a single. I'm sure baseball's many sabermorticians have yet another stat which takes this into account....

I know what you're saying and it's hard to disagree but I can kind of see why though. Sometimes the difference between a home run and an out or a double is too fine to bother with. A hit is a hit insofar as it means the pitcher make the pitch he intended. It's not a bad measure of how well a pitcher is making his pitches.

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>Thanks for the stat on run support this season. That quite amazes me, although I do believe you. Generally the Giants offense is crap. Then again, the Phillies offense has been a lot more crap than one would expect looking at the lineup. I have seen some quotes from Charlie Manuel this season and you can sense his frustration. He knows he has guys who can get it done and they haven't been getting it done. They may yet overtake the Braves, especially with Chipper Jones out for the year. And we all know anything can happen in the postseason. Despite their ups and downs so far, the Phillies would be a formidable opponent due to their recent winning experience in the postseason and the addition of Oswalt. Halladay, Oswalt, Hamels ... Halladay, Oswalt, Hamels ... not a prospect that would make any opposing manager sleep soundly.

It's the Halladay curse. Put him in to pitch and the chances become very good that his team will stop hitting. I don't know why that is, but it seems to be his bane.

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>Just checked the standings, a daily habit, and we still have 5 close races in 6 divisions, plus several teams in each league in wild card contention. It's a great time to be a baseball fan
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>I am happy to discuss sports with you any time. Some of the other stuff, not so much....
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>> Lincecum has a better record this season, as he does every season
>>
>>Mike, where do you get this??? The facts:
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>>Lincecum, 11 wins, 6 losses....ERA of 3.41....24 starts, 155 innings pitched, 59 walks, 163 Ks, WHIP 1.30, opp. BA of .245
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>>Halladay, 15 wins, 8 losses....ERA of 2.24....25 starts, 193 innings pitched, 22 walks, 175 Ks, WHIP 1.01, opp BA of .239
>>
>>
>>Halladay has a slightly higher winning %
>>Halladay's ERA is ONE RUN LOWER per nine innings
>>Halladay goes deeper into games than Lincecum does - this harms SF's bullpen.
>>Halladay has much better control...almost a third fewer walks, and almost as many strikeouts per 9 innings
>>Halladay's walks/hits per inning pitched is better.
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>>And oh...on the topic of run support...straight average, Lincecum gets 1 run more per game than Halladay....median average, Lincecum gets over 2 runs more a game than Halladay. Go up to ESPN.COM and check the numbers yourself.
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>>Given that Lincecum historically breaks down in late season (look at his career ERA and losing record in September), I'd say that by the end of the season, these numbers will be even wider in favor of Halladay. (And remember that Halladay pitches in a park that's a death sentence for pitchers)
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>>So...in exactly what universe does Lincecum have better numbers?????
>>
>>
>>But hey, look on the bright side....after the season is over, Timmy L. will chill out and smoke two blunts full of skunk and forget about the entire season.