>>>>>>>>>> That doesn't explain charitable donations for Haiti/Pakistani etc. relief.
>>>>>>>>>The above goes a long way to giving a plausible explanation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>How so?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I said plausible not simple so I'm not sure I can summarize very easily..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You seem to accept that altruism works on a tribal level and has proven itself over many thousands of years to be beneficial to species survival (this doesn't just apply to humans)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The manifestation of altruism in humans is compassion/pity (or other subjective nouns of your choice)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>That's a bit of a leap, IMO.
>>>>>
>>>>>I missed out a few steps along the way :-}
>>>>>
>>>>>>Behaviour indistinguishable from "compassion/pity" can be exhibited by those who are merely lazy, or even amoral if they are embedded within a larger society or culture that places value on those behaviours.
>>>>>
>>>>>In an alruistic society it is very easy for a small majority to behave in selfish manner (which is really what you are describing above) and to be very successful as individuals. But in the longer term it is members of the altruistic majority that thrive.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Once you are genetically programmed to have these feelings then you do not control who should be the benificiaries.
>>>>>>>(Well OK - I'll make an exception for Bill :-} )
>>>>>>
>>>>>>An even bigger leap.
>>>>>
>>>>>Again I missed out some steps of logic...
>>>>>
>>>>>>To ask just one superficial question, are you saying one can't distinguish between tribe/non-tribe in considering beneficiaries?
>>>>>
>>>>>No. Of course we can consiously make the distinction - and choose to behave differently accordingly. But the underlying natural inclination is normally to offer help.
>>>>>But don't forget that the root of this argument is that being altruistic is still a form of selfishness - there's an underlying expectation that you will receive benefit in return.
>>>>
>>>>I wonder what benefit Legadema expected to get in return? A meal?
>>>>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-422784/How-leopard-changed-spots---saved-baby-baboon.html
>>>
>>>I may not have phrased my last sentence very well. I didn't mean to imply that there is a one-on-one expectation of reciprocation. Just that, in a generally altruistic society, thinks even themselves out.
>>>
>>>As far as the leopard story goes I think it bears out what I said before. If altruistic behaviour is embedded in the DNA then it is the *witholding* of aid that needs a conscious decision. Parental instinct is maybe the most basic form of altruism and that's what the leopard was displaying. Happens a lot with dogs for example - maybe rarer with leopards (andcertainly less likely to be observed)
>>>
>>>Anyway I find myself espousing and/or defending an argument which I find interesting but for which I'm not an evangelist.
>>>If you're interested, as suggested to Al, try Richard Dawkins 'The selfish gene' and Matt Ridleys 'The origins of virtue'
>>>
>>>Best,
>>>Viv
>>
>>Thanks. I think I did misunderstand your meaning somewhat... :o) Plus, I just thought the story was cool :o)
>
>Of course you thought it was cool - you're genetically programmed to do so :-}

ROFL. :o) I got that. :o)