>>>>>>>>Thread title in this story: How the Chinese arrest activists:
>>>>>>>>http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d4fcf4e6-3f6d-11e0-a1ba-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1Esjc4sPd
>>>>>>>>China charges subversion for protest repostings
>>>>>>>>http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_CHINA_PROTEST_CALLS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-02-23-09-57-13
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Saudi Arabia goes on the offensive the $ way:
>>>>>>>>http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b02f1ffa-3f62-11e0-8e48-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1Esjc4sPd
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Greek riots:
>>>>>>>>http://apnews.myway.com/article/20110223/D9LIG4900.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Protesting in India:
>>>>>>>>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12549050
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Gadhafi forces strike back at revolt near Tripoli
>>>>>>>>http://apnews.myway.com/article/20110224/D9LJ5BQ80.html
>>>>>>>>Qaeda sets up "Islamic Emirate", Libya deputy FM says
>>>>>>>>http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/02/23/138957.html
>>>>>>>>Violence in Libya:
>>>>>>>>http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-24/egyptians-fleeing-libya-tell-of-massacre-after-qaddafi-hits-back-at-rebels.html
>>>>>>>>Obama's speech on Libya yesterday:
>>>>>>>>http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/24/us/politics/24obama-statement-libya.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The irony of this is just amazing:
>>>>>>>>Ahmadinejad: Mideast leaders should heed calls for change
>>>>>>>>http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/02/23/iran.mideast.unrest/index.html?eref=edition
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Get to work Holzer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>BTW as we describe massacres in the east.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Its not so many years since the parachute regiment shot 26 people demonstrating against the government of the day killing 13 of them in sunny Northern Ireland and your own national guard killed a few people at Kent State. So maybe we should back off the high moral ground for a bit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Underneath it all the main difference between us and them is a thin veneer of civilisation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I think it is stretching moral relativism to the limits to compare Kent State or even Bloody Sunday with Libya. Bullying use of state power is deplorable wherever it is found, but there are lot more differences in the societies, governments and cultures involved than that specifics of particular incidents of chaos.
>>>>>
>>>>>I in no way condone thebehaviour of the Libyan or Bahrian governments but its to easy to assume that over there is bad and we are good. Its greyer than that.
>>>>
>>>>I get what you are saying, but I don't see anyone making that assumption. The whole lesson of the English ( vs French ) Enlightenment was that we are *not* good and therefore have to structure society in a way to protect people from an oppressive state or the assumption of unlimited power by the most venal.
>>>>
>>>>It is the very reason so many in this country are suspicious of highly centralized government power and intrusion into the everyday lives of citizens. It is true individuals can and will commit crimes - but governments can commit atrocities.
>>>
>>>You would have been interested in an interview I heard with a popular historian the other day. He commented that historically most states created through revolution are extremely oppressive (I guess the USA is exception that proves the rule)
>>
>>Not sure I understand your comment. Was it meant as sarcasm or were you being serious? Do you consider the USA "extremely oppressive" or an exception to that rule?
>>
>>Maybe it's time you visited some oppressive regimes? Been there, done that. The west (the USA included) have many areas they can and need to improve on (they are all slowly whiddling away at some personal freedoms and rights in the guise of the greater good), but there is still no comparison to real oppressive regimes.
>
>
>The exception Tracy

Thanks for the clarification. I really didn't get your meaning when I read it.... (waiting on an appt and then it's back to getting ready for the move). I'm not used to having so much "free" time. :o)