>>>>>>>First off, sorry Massachusetts but you've been one-upped in the race for the stupidest state.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Congratulations Vermont!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You've managed to pass the first statewide experiment with a single-payor health care system in the USA.
>>>>>>>http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/22/us/22vermont.html?_r=1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Now I realize that I'm going against the whole concept of American Exceptionalism being able to overcome reality and "do it better" than say Britain or Canada or anyone else but I'm going to make my prediction anyhow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Vermont's health care costs will rise dramatically more than they predict (they'll have to predict as they will be requesting the money from the feds). Using Massachusetts' pseudo single payor as my basis I'll say that Vermont can expect their health care costs to exceed predictions by a minimum of 42% over the next 5 years. In addition I predict that the ratio of doctors to patients will decrease and that wait times for care will increase. I predict a higher number of doctors leaving Vermont to relocate than will relocate to Vermont. Finally I predict a dramatic increase in the number of patients visiting neighboring states for care.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Congratulations again Vermont for being the guinea pig. Of course, if you'd simply paid attention to the world you'd have know what you're in for but what the heck, you're Americans and you'll do it better...right?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Then how come all the other developed nations have some form of socialized medical care and pay far less for it than we do?
>>>>>
>>>>>Because they hold down costs by denying care through waiting times and rationing, which are responses to the inevitible cost overruns which happen anytime something is seen as being provided for nothing. The rest of the world is moving away from this model and towards more private care for a reason.
>>>>
>>>>Any examples of countries with socialized medical care that have reverted to a private care model ? I don't know of any.....
>>>
>>>I never suggested that any have reverted, I said "moving away".
>>>
>>>Here's an example published yesterday.
>>>Poland has emerged as one of the favored destinations for medical tourism among international travelers. The low-cost treatment facilities coupled with well established tourism and health infrastructure has led to favorable growth of medical tourism market in Poland. In recent years large number of patients from UK, Germany and other destinations have visited Poland for dental and other medical treatments.
>>>
>>>According to our analysis medical tourism market in Poland will witness phenomenal growth in near future mainly due to huge cost savings and long waiting time for treatment in western countries. The increasing level of investment in private healthcare facilities and focus on promotional activities by associations and government will further strengthen the position of Poland as favored destination for medical tourism. It is further anticipated that Poland will give stiff competition to already established destinations for medical tourism like India, Singapore and Thailand.
>>>
>>>http://www.pr-inside.com/poland-has-emerged-as-one-of-r2614797.htm
>>
>>The jist of that is that private health care is cheaper in Poland than most western european countries. I'm not sure how that is relevant to their state care operation which is still based on a compulsory national insurance scheme (although it looks as if a few services may be supplied through private medical practices). See the section on their Health Care System here:http://ec.europa.eu/health/ph_projects/1999/monitoring/poland_en.pdf
>
>Again, I mentioned that the "rest of the world is moving away from this model", as in the current reforms are not moving towards more central control but away from it through increased privatization. Note that the piece you linked is from 2001.

There are two issues here.
Whether the state *pays* for free health care for it citizens (possibly subsidised by a levy)
And whether the state decides to provide that care via a nationalised health system or to contract parts of the operation (no pun intended) out to private corporations.


>Here is a hit piece from June 2010. The author aknowledges the move towards capitalism in health care in Europe.
>http://www.bmj.com/content/340/bmj.c2837.extract
>Post-communist countries of Europe have seen dramatic transformation in healthcare systems with a move away from socialised medicine to the introduction of capitalism. The changes—the break-up of central state structures, the introduction of the market and private health insurance, coupled with the propagation of the idea of individual responsibility for health—have been dictated by principles laid down by the World Bank.
>
>She notes it so she can bash it, ;) but the point remains. Europe is moving away from central control.
>
>>>>>>The watering down of health care reform in the U.S. (ongoing) is exhibit A in the steamrolling of the American public by big business.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>OK, enough politics for me.