>>>Where exactly did I deny that Detroit is a disaster? It's the only city in the I pointed out that one can rise from the worst situations to achieve great success and pointed to a couple individuals who had it MUCH worse than any living in Detroit today.
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>Your assertion was that the American Dream is available to all. You can quote as many positive examples as you please but as I tried to tell you, positive anecdote can never "prove" an absolute statement such as yours: it is negative anecdote, or more correctly the lack of it, that constitutes a proof. One negative example can trump 1000 positive examples when it comes to "proving" one of your absolute assertions. Whereas you seem to believe that a few positive outliers can trump thousands of negative norms. On this it seems we never can agree.

We clearly disagree. It seems to me the reason is that I believe in the individual whereas you believe in the collective. What I mean is that I believe that individual will can overcome nearly any circumstance, which is why I look for such examples rising from desperate poverty in horrible environments to prove that individuals, through sheer power of will and determination, are capable of exceptional things. You seem to believe that if everyone doesn't succeed then the system is a failure. That's how I read "negative example can trump 1000 positive examples". There is no system, yet discovered, which will guarantee success for all. It's called Utopia and as long as humans, with all their inherent flaws, are involved it cannot exist.

The qualities I look for are those very qualities that put the early Europeans on the boats for the New World. Those qualities that formed this nation. Those qualities which were acknowledged and guaranteed by our Declaration and Constitution.

I fully acknowledge that many will not succeed. That many will outright fail, through their own efforts or those "put upon" them by friends, family or well-meaning outsiders. However, that many fail does not trump those who succeed and it only takes one success to prove that it can be done. Because of the structure of this nation, we don't have but one, there are millions of examples.

>>>Since I'm sensing the end of our discussion I'd like to thank you for the lesson in projection.
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>Pleasure. As always.

Merry Christmas!