>I don't know nearly as much about it as you guys do but it seems like invoking .Show has to be part of the problem. Isn't there some way to thwart before calling it?
>

I agree. If the ".show()" functionality would be part of the constructor, but for some reason, I don't think it is.

I have never tried it, but I could call .show() from new() (the constructor in vbese), then I cold encapsulate the functionality in the base class... (and get other surprises I guess ;) ).

>Hmmm, that comment about "real test" in frm.CanShowForm() is interesting. Maybe that's the thwart point?