>>>>>>Nonense, it is illegal to withhold patients from treatment that can save their lives. I guess you listened too much into those nutcases that run for president and tell you all kind of lies arround healthcare somewhere else to scare you off. The neighbour of my mother turned 101 a month ago. He's still living on his own, but had some blatter problem. Not having anymore than just standard health insurance they did surgery to have his blatter drained. Unless you don't think 101 is what you consider old, I think you've got a (deliberately) twisted picture of 'socialised' Healthcare.
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>>>>>"However, as the result of various court cases, doctors who directly kill patients or help patients kill themselves will not be prosecuted as long as they follow certain guidelines."
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>>>>so far correct.
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>>>>>"The main argument in favor of euthanasia in Holland has always been the need for more patient autonomy — that patients have the right to make their own end-of-life decisions. Yet, over the past 20 years, Dutch euthanasia practice has ultimately given doctors, not patients, more and more power. The question of whether a patient should live or die is often decided exclusively by a doctor or a team of physicians."
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>>>>Rubbish. A doctor can only decide not to proceed treatment because of the inevitable faith if there is nobody to decide otherwise. And I've been there when my father died last year as a result from colon cancer.
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>>>>>"The Netherlands Cancer Institute told of approximately 30 cases a year where doctors ended patients’ lives after the patients intentionally had been put into a coma by means of a morphine injection. The Cancer Institute physician then stated that these deaths were not considered “euthanasia” because they were not voluntary, and that to have discussed the plan to end these patients’ lives with the patients would have been “rude” since they all knew they had incurable conditions."
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>>>>The netherlands is a country of 17 million people and you are drawing far reaching conclusions at the basis of 30 possible cases? My father has been put into coma (at home) by morhine as well as his last hours were not pleasant for either him nor us. He died of his cancer and not of being killed by morhine. He might have lived another few hours without the morphine not much longer than that.
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>>>>>It goes on and on talking about doctors and health officials killing its own people. In any other country, this would be considered genocide. The mere fact that you can comment on our health care system while you tacitly support the killing of your fellow countrymen by not doing anything about it is the utmost in arrogance. Look to your own house first before casting aspersions on others.
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>>>>rubbish... this is prohibited by law. Can you tell me why the discussion does not live here? Simply because its not an issue here. There might be a number of incidents here where the strict guidelines were not followed, but the numbers are so low that it simply is not regarded an issue here at all. IOW, this probably has gotten to you for the purpose to scare you off, but has little to do with reality or even the public opinion up here.
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>>>>If putting 30 terminally ill people a year that only have hours to live into coma by not strictly following the rules is your definition of genocide, you're right, however I would call it humanity. We treat our pets better than our fellows.
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>>>>>The last time I brought this up, you did a quiet tap dance and never addressed the question, I fully expect the same again.
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>>>>I fully expect some stereotypical american reply that is influenced by right wing/pro life politics filled with arguments that are heavily taken out of context, if not, just straight lies.
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>>>I gave you a document printed by YOUR government and all you can say is rubbish. I only printed a small proportion of the many pages alluding to the fact that they are killing your countrymen and all you can say is rubbish. Well that's your right, but I, for one, would be up in arms if that were happening here. How you can so quietly live with it is beyond me. The attitude towards this that you show, is the same attitude that allowed the Nazis to conquer half of Europer. "As long as its not happening to me or mine, it must be okay..... "
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>>First of all, how do you know its our government that published the article (I did not see that stated)? Seconds, from what is written I can only conclude that the rules arround euthnesia are not always followed strictly as they should (which is unavoidable in large numbers of cases anyways)
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>>But its not the listing of facts, its about the interpretation and conclusion you seem to draw from it, AND THAT IS RUBBISH. if a paper says that rules were not followed in a few cases and you conclude this is genocide then really you have lost all credibility and really is a smack in the face to those really have been victim of genocide. These cases we are discussing at most are cases where procedures were not followed correctly and therefore technically cannot be classified as euthnesia despite the fact that the clients forcast was very very poor without any hope on any moment of respectable quality of life in the outlook of the remaining several hours. If you like to call that genoccide or use this to scare other people, it says a lot more about you and your motives than it says about the people in question in these incidents.
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>>If you like, I can give you a lot more shocking cases that lead to unwillingness death or permanent disabilities because of withold healthcare. Its time you look in the mirror John.
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>Since when is 1,000's of deaths insignificant? Facts be damned...... I know its not true.... The tooth fairy, Santa Claus and the Grinch do really exist.

Since when are approx 30 cases a year, thousands of deaths? Considering that this law only exists 10 - 15 years? What is your definition of facts? Do you have any clue about the number of deaths as result of medical blunders causes by a seriously ill healthcare system? Please check the life expectancy in the US and compare that with western european country... And that are facts !!