>><snip>
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>>>>Assuming you were born in PA and that you have a birth certificate. Some of the people we're talking about were born in places and times where they don't have one.
>>>
>>>We're talking about people "born in places and times where they don't have" a birth certificate yet they came here legally without any documentation and after becomming a citizen they have no proof of doing so?
>>
>>I'm not talking about immigrants. I'm talking about old folks who were born out in the countryside. I heard last night about a old black man who's been voting in PA for 40+ years. He was delivered by a midwife in North Carolina and no birth certificate was filed. Unless this law is repealed or overturned, he'll never be able to vote again.
>
>There is a solution to this as well which required under a minute to locate.
>
http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/secondary_evidence/secondary_evidence_4315.html>
Looks fairly complicated and, of course, getting a passport is expensive. My point is that the law is putting unreasonably barriers in the way of a constitutional right.
>>>>Assuming you can go at those times without losing your job.
>>>
>>>Again, who are these people who work M-F 8-5 52 weeks a year?
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>>They're poor people who are working every hour they can to try to feed their families. They may be taking 3 buses to get to work.
>
>You're honestly suggesting there are vast swarms of people working during DMV business hours, every single weekday of every year and have no form of identification? This is where I'm having a disconnect. Under what SS# are they paying their taxes?
For the PA law, you need an SS card, but that's not sufficient.
For people who don't drive and who don't travel outside the US, I don't think it's that absurd that they wouldn't have a government-issued photo ID. (In PA, an employer-issued photo ID isn't good enough unless it's issued by a government agency.) We're talking about poor people, perhaps domestic workers or factory workers.
FWIW, here's the list of acceptable ID under the PA law:
http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=1174114&parentname=ObjMgr&parentid=4&mode=2Note that most college IDs in PA are not satisfactory because they don't include an expiration date. A number of schools will be issuing IDs with expiration dates this fall.
>>>>Bottom line for me is that putting impediments in the way of people exercising their legitimate right to vote is unconscionable.
>>>
>>>"Legitimate" is the very issue. How do we determine legitimacy without identity verification? Shouldn't the voter have any responsibility to prove themselves or should we take everyone's word for it? Why even require registration in the first place?
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>>So based on very few documented cases of fraud, you're willing to risk large numbers of citizens being denied the right to vote? What trade-off is fair to you? How many legitimate voters denied to prevent 1 fraudulent vote?
>
>My purpose in this was to point out that the excuses are not legit nor a solid position to oppose this from. I am not advocating for the law. Doris had it right in my opinion, we are innocent until proven guilty.
Right. And, in my view, requiring photo ID from a voter who has been voting in the same polling place for years and is known to the poll workers is absurd. PA already had a law about proving ID the first time you vote in a new place.
There's no doubt in my mind that the new law was put in place specifically to impede voting by poor people, old people, and minorities.
FWIW, Morning Edition had a story about these laws today:
http://www.npr.org/2012/07/18/156935624/study-many-could-face-obstacles-in-voter-id-lawsTamar
