I'm not talking around your point I'm making my own. The top 2% tax increase by itself does nothing, yet that's what Obama is publicly talking about. Obama's plan is not serious as witnessed by the fact that the Senate will not even take it up. Boehner's is DOA as made clear by Geithner. This is a game of political chicken, plain and simple.

>Not biting. I said what I had to say and you chose to try to talk your way around my point, that this is not a tax hike. For 98% of Americans it is a continued tax reduction.
>
>>>Hello Jake,
>>>
>>>It is not a tax rate hike. It is letting the Bush era tax cuts, agreed upon by both parties, expire as (re)scheduled . And even then affecting only 1-2% of taxpayers. And let's not forget President Obama has agreed to let the rate cuts continue for everyone else. He has shown he is willing to compromise. Is the other side? It doesn't look so. They are letting partisan warfare trump the good of the country.
>>
>>Again, we have to take their numbers at their word to even engage in a dialog.
>>The House Reps have made a counterproposal with $800billion in revenue increases without rate increases or roughly what the rate increases on the top 2% will generate over the next decade.
>>
>>Geitner has been clear :
>>“There is no prospect of an agreement that doesn’t involve those rates going up on the top 2%,”
>>http://www.marketwatch.com/story/obama-spurns-republican-fall-back-plan-2012-12-05
>>
>>"No prospect". Doesn't sound very compromisy to me.
>>
>>Whether you want to call them temporary or scheduled or revenue enhancements doesn't matter a lick. If the Reps cave, they are Bush 41. If Obama caves he loses his first test since re-election. It's a game of chicken.
>>
>>My advise, don't be standing between the 2 cars as they decide who'll blink first. ;)
>>
>>>Comparing the change in tax revenue to the national deficit is just PR. It is the same game played by Paul Ryan and others in Congress last year when they threatened to force the U.S. to default on its debts unless federal spending was slashed. Quid pro quo. That would have been a fiscal calamity. Default on our debts? That would have had worldwide impact. .
>>
>>As opposed to the "fiscal cliff" schenanigans, our spending is not a game. The US is the brokest nation in the history of the world and we're compounding the problem by accelerating our rate of debt accumulation while at the same time being the primary purchaser (~70%) since there are fewer worldwide buyers with every new debt auction. Without a dramatic course correction there is only one conclusion and only one question (when).
>>
>>>Reasonable people can disagree on fiscal policy, I think this is going over the line. This fiscal cliff debate is irresponsible representation epitomized
>>
>>On this we completely agree, it was completely irresponsible and shows a universal lack of leadership to come up with the can kick which put us here in the first place.
>>
>>Update : Always remember, free people get the government they deserve. We have sent back the same people who are doing the same thing they've done since the last time we sent them there. It's our fault and we get to pay the consequences for our actions.
>>
>>>OK, I'm out. I've said what I meant to say..
>>
>>>>Mike, the drama playing out regarding the "fiscal cliff" is a political game.
>>>>
>>>>Note : I'm using the numbers provided by the public debate. For this we'll forgo the fact that CBO estimates are never accurate especially in regards to tax revenue. ;)
>>>>
>>>>The best estimate I've seen for revenue generation from the tax rate hike on $250k & above is apx $800 billion over a decade. Our deficit this year alone is over $1Trillion. The tax rate hike is negligible yet is the only thing Obama and Reid are willing to consider as presented by Geitner, entitlements are off the table. So, what's really going on?
>>>>
>>>>Democrats see an opening to damage the Republican brand. The Republicans are the low tax party. It's been their one consistent winning issue in the past 90 or so years. If they give in, they become Bush 41 to their own base.
>>>>
>>>>The Democrats believe, as was a main thrust behind sequestration in the first place, that they have the Republicans triangulated. Raise taxes on the top 2% or the largest tax increase in history goes in effect accross the board and defense gets slashed. They're not incorrect. They are not incorrect. The Republican leadership is scared to death that they'll be blamed by the general public if they do nothing and be blamed by their base if they give in. They're not incorrect either. If the general public blames Reps, they'll have trouble in the next elections. If the base blames them they have no chance.
>>>>
>>>>That's the game that's being played. We are merely pawns being given a show. If I were Boehner, I'd pass a permanent extension of the current rates and at the same time pass Simpson Bowles type entitlement reform. Pass a serious $4+Trillion package of real reform and hand the ball off to Reid. One big press conference to announce it and then talk about abosolutely nothing else for the rest of the month. Let the public know that the ONLY plan available is being held up by the Dems.
>>>>
>>>>Of course, that would require Boehner to show some serious backbone and leadership and let's face it, he doesn't have it in him.
>>>>
>>>>Truth be told, I'm expecting to go "over the cliff" and have planned accordingly. This nation is going to have to pay the piper sooner or later. We should've stepped up in 2009, let things crash and let the market sort itself out. Instead we tried that age old insanity of delaying the pain by attempting to spend ourselves out of debt. The problems are bigger now, thus the pain will be as well. If we kick the can again, the coming correction will be even more painful.
>>>>
>>>>I've got my barrel, let's go for a ride! ;)
>>>>
>>>>>In addition to being a lock on the list of the most memorable new phrases of 2012, the so-called fiscal cliff has to be on the short list of the most misrepresented issues. Taken straight off today's news wire, here is John Boehner saying with a straight face that it is a tax hike on the rich.
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/05/politics/fiscal-cliff/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
>>>>>
>>>>>He is correct that they will be paying more taxes than they are now. What he leaves out is that the tax rate for all Americans was reduced during the Bush administration (with bipartisan support) for a limited time. That time period has been extended at least once and is now scheduled to expire at the end of the year. President Obama has agreed to extend the tax rate cut for all but the richest 1-2% of Americans, those with reported earnings over $250,000 a year. Yes, you read that right. Almost all of us will be paying less taxes than than we would if the temporary tax cut expires as scheduled. The Republicans are going to the wall for the top 1-2%. Think about that.
>>>>>
>>>>>Obama said repeatedly during the campaign that he did not want to extend the tax cut for the wealthiest. This was said and debated many, many times. His position could not have been more clear. He won the election. Now the House Republicans want to have their way anyway. Is there something wrong with this picture?