>>>>>>The fact of the matter remains, and that is that the American society is a whole lot more violent and trigger happy than the swiss. The bigger question is how many innocent victims are acceptable before the US finally takes some action to this madness? Currently is about 30.000 a year. So how many are acceptable: 50.000, 100.000, 1.000.000
>>>>>
>>>>>Many Americans consider those deaths the price of freedom.
>>>>
>>>>In my view, that is exactly what is wrong and totally nuts.
>>>>
>>>>Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
>>>
>>>Popularized by Janis, but trite, and wrong, as you're no doubt aware.
>>>
>>>>Freedom and "Can do whatever you want" are two different things.
>>>
>>>Not as different as you'd think. How about, freedom is you can do whatever you want, as long as you don't impair others' freedom (?)
>>
>>Nope, you still are not allowed to violate laws that don't have to do with impairing others' freedom. Think of not paying taxes, euthnesia, driving without a drivers licence, driving a tank in public, drinking alcohol under the age of 18 / 21, consume drugs. Carry a weapon below a certain age, gay marriage (in most states), public sex, hold endangered species, etc.
>
>You're not thinking it through. Just apply the 7 "whys" to any of your examples.
>
>>Freedom, is a totally overvalued word in the US, misunderstood and abused.
>>
>>If you really want to have freedom, you should get an one way ticket the the Australian inlands where nobody lives. You can do whatever you want there.
>>
>>Also one to think about... what has the most dramatic impact on freedom in your life? ... for me it was getting married and getting children. That was a well made decision... I traded my freedom for happiness and joy in my life, I otherwise would not have.
>
>It appears your definition of freedom is highly constrained, compared to that of most North Americans. But that doesn't make your definition right and NA's wrong.

Rule 1: Walter is always right about North America. (He has been here!)
Rule 2: See rule 1.

In general I defend Walter more than some people here do but he is irritating me in this discussion. We don't give him prescriptive advice about Holland, do we?