Actually, high-integrity systems (banking) demand that the bizrules be in the data engine, for security reasons. The numbers can't be changed without the bizrules firing. I've read about this trend elsewhere in the past few months.

Having the bizrules in the data engine also facilitates using them across different devices. While native mobile apps in Lianja will have VFPish running on the client (iOS, Android, WinRT), all the other versions (desktop; desktop browser; desktop browser secure; mobile browser) will run from the same bizrules in the same place. Native mobile apps will run VFPish. I suspect we will be able to indicate which data rules should go on the client, given client type, because native mobile apps have the goal of disconnected operation.

Hank

>I am certainly not disagreeing with the productivity gains offered by a good framework. I quickly started using FoxExpress and then VFE for new development projects. Nonetheless, according to what I have read the demand for software developers remains sky high.
>
>Combining the bizrules layer and the data layer, hmmm. Isn't that pretty unconventional? I am sure you had good reasons for making that choice.
>
>>Hi Mike,
>>
>>not code generators, but development environment. A lot of that was in VFP, but was only fulfilled in the various frameworks that came out. There's very little code in our forms, for the most part: it's in the framework. The same will be true in Lianja, the exception being that business rules will run in the data engine exclusively (by our choice). Of course the business rules will be written in VFPish as supported by Lianja. It's like having SQL Server with VFP as the scripting language.
>>
>>Hank
>>
>>>I have to go along with Tom here. The thought that code generators will replace programmers has been around for a LONG time, like since the early 1980s. Yet software development remains one of the most in-demand professions. (The tricky bit is that the specific skills that are in demand keep changing).
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi Tom,
>>>>
>>>>I don't think this about programmers, but rather about productivity. In the old days we were busy to scrape out every cycle of the CPU and worrying about the physical storage of data. This is not an issue anymore for the majority of apps. Nowerdays we are much more worried about making your app available through different platforms (PC, Mac, Linux, Android, IOS), different browsers using cloud based computing and out of the box solutions to common problems, like security, encryption and a framework that is solution oriented, rather than just a huge number of classes that really no-one can fully understand, let alone to pick the rights classes for a given problem.
>>>>
>>>>We have to get out of the 3/4GL languages and gear up for the 5GL solutions which much more focusing on providing you solutions rather than providing you the language and classes to build the solution, iow, focus on what needs to be implemented, rather than how.
>>>>
>>>>Walter,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Walter;
>>>>>
>>>>>I can remember 20 years ago reading an article that programming by humans would not exist in ten years. I think the author was off by a few years, but I think that there will be less and less demand for programmers in the future. Just talk into your iPhone 10 and it will create an aplication for you. :)
>>>>>
>>>>>Tom
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>So how does .NET differ from, say, VFP ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It's in the philosophy of application. Either local compute, storage, communication, or remote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>So how do they differ ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>The same choices are available for both platforms.
>>>>>>>>>>>>Look ahead, Viv. It's in .NET's design. If you can't see it ... I can't help you.
>>>>>>>>>>>Why not?
>>>>>>>>>>It's one of those things you either see and understand, or not.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>And there was me thinking that the idea of UT was that people who understand things can explain them to people who do not :-{
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>It works sometimes. Not always. "There are none so blind as those who will not see."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Ah well. I've only been using .NET for 10 years - guess I don't know it well enough.
>>>>>>>Perhaps you can give me an example of one think that .NET forces you to do that VFP does not ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I personally think that the days of programming everything yourself are numbered whether that is VFP or .NET. The future of developing database apps is much more in development environments like WinDev, Servoy, Lianja and others. Those application frameworks are much more productive as the provisions of e.g. cross platform, windows/browser development, support for tablet/smartphones, security, cloud based computing etc come out of the box. Sure there will be applications that are more suitable from ground up but I'm convinced the majority will be written in such application development platforms. And rather than worrying about the datatypes to keep the compiler happy, focus will be much more on the what? rather than how?