Rick,

>>Rick, as an (catholic) agnost, I don't need the written words out of any religious book to live a humble life with decency, compassion and love. You don't need to live by the rules written down in a book, and worse intepretated by 3rd parties, for you to swallow without any criticism and self reflection.


Again, Rick, what you believe is entirely up to you and I respect that, but please don't force your believes throughout someone else his/her throat. That is where the troube begins at each and every religion.

Please respect the fact that I do not share your opinion on what you've written. Please find the courage to respect everyone with different beleives and let them live their own defintion of their goals in life, without feeling the need to force your knowledge and/or believes down someone else his throat. That is what is setting people off.

As much as I respect you to believe in God, I hope you can respect me not to believe in any God at all.

Peace,

Walter,



>
>There's a bigger picture, Walter. A person can go through this life as Hitler or Mother Theresa and ... for the most part ... survive, and possibly thrive (as both Hitler (until the very end) and Mother Theresa did).
>
>This life must not be our focus though as an end goal, but rather only as that which it is: the beginning of that which is the end goal: eternity. And the reason we have scripture is to be able to know whether our actions align with God's plan for us because we are in sin and we cannot know the truth unless God's Spirit reveal it to us. We have the written word to know what is truth because God wrote it down to give to us His guide, His plan. And nothing of substance has been lost for coming to know God, of salvation, no matter how much the enemy tries to change God's Holy Word, or confuse the issue. Above all of this remains God's promise: Seek, and you will find. Knock, and the door will be opened to you. Ask, and you shall receive...
>
>And there is confirmation of the written word by observing the result (you will know them by their fruit), and also through God's Holy Spirit when He comes to live inside a person, to guide, and teach, and bring to our remembrance all good things so we will know and rememober to choose those paths.
>
>God cares for us. It is the enemy who convinces us about negative aspects of God. But there are none. God is good all the time. Even when we are bad, God is good, and He is constantly looking for ways to pull us back to Him. He sends people our way, puts opportunities in our paths, He looks out across time and sets into motion life long events, things in our teens and 20s which bear fruit years later. He is God Almighty and that is His domain. And we were made in His image, and in His likeness, special amongst all of His creation. We are His children, and like a good Father, He loves us.
>
>Sin is our enemy. Sin destroys. Sin allows the enemy to operate against us, convincing us into all manner of immorality, hate, harm and this diminished existence we accept when the gifts of God are able to produce in far greater abundance for all people to receive.
>
>Eternity exists. Eternity is real. This life is not our end. Jesus taught that no-one can enter in to the Kingdom of Heaven unless he be born again (of the spirit). He said this for a reason: because it is true. Flesh gives birth to flesh. But spirit gives birth to spirit.
>
>When we are born we are dead (spiritually). We are alive because we have a spirit on loan from God. But once we die we go to sleep. "Our" spirit returns to God. At some point in the future we wake up and are summoned by name to stand before God to face judgment. We will be handed the sentence that was passed against all of mankind when Adam sinned. That is the nature of our hope here upon this Earth without God. Even though we appear to thrive, we are dead in eternity. The Bible says it this way:
>Hebrews 9 KJV
>27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
>
>God fixed that. He changed that by coming here and dying for us. We now have something available which was not available before. This new gift of God is that none of us have to go through that judgment. None of us have to enter into Hell. He Himself made the way out.
>
>As you say, this path requires humbling yourself, living your life with decency, compassion, and love (the Bible calls it holiness). It is part of what happens to a person when they are born again. It's from the inside out. They are re-wired. The old ways (old thoughts, old desires, the ones we were blinded to as being harmful before being born again) pass away, and all things become new. We see through new eyes, with new ears, and we are able to discern things that before being born again we could not know (like the blind man not being able to see the world he lives in, and then being able to see it after gaining his sight).
>The Bible says it this way:
>2 Corinthians 5 KJV
>17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
>
>Each man chooses. But God has not left us without. He has guided us rightly. He has taught us rightly. He has provided for us rightly. He cares for us lovingly. And He has provided everything necessary to recognize our place here on this Earth, recognize His place in Heaven, recognize the nature of our wisp of a life here on this Earth, recognize the nature of eternity, and He (in our heart) gives us the knowledge of the things which are to come sufficiently that we begin at some point to ask the big questions. And He is there to provide the answers.
>
>But the enemy is also there. And the degree to which we will walk toward God in this world depends upon us, and the degree to which we are able and willing to hear God, which is to say to hear The Truth (because God is Truth, literally).
>
>I urge you to pray, Walter. To go and ask someone you know who is a Christian to pray with you, and then to ask some questions and open the Bible and have that person read to you some of the passages which relate to your inquiries. God will confirm on your inside, in your heart, in your soul, the reality of those words written on a page, because they were written by God's Holy Spirit operating through men, and as such they are not like other words, but they convey the power of life through God.
>
>I will be praying for you, Walter. The enemy has no power over us ... except that which we give him. And God is willing and able to save all of us (the entirety of mankind) if we will only come to Him. "There is room at the cross ... for me."
>
>
>>nowerdays we are educated and raised in a way that we should all be able to live a life with the same rules and values in mind without having to live by the exact words that have been written down about 2000 years ago. Most of us don't need a god for that.
>>
>>I appreciate your contributions here and respect your work in Visual FreePro, but please be aware that some people might get offended by you, because of the many bad things that have happend out of name of (your) religion. I hope you can respect the opinion of those others.
>>
>>As for myself, I don't care. I've got no use for religion in my life, except for conforming to the values and rules that I have been told and learned throughout my life.
>
>
>God changes people. We (believers) don't follow rules from the outside in (we don't read them on a page and obey them because the page says these words), but rather we are changed on the inside. We follow them because we are born again of the Spirit, and God's Spirit conveys within us certain actions, desires, which are eternal, which are holy, which are proper ... and they align with what's written on the page because it's the same author: God in us, God working through the men who wrote down those pages.
>
>
>>I don't care about your religion, and respect you as long as you don't force it down my throat. Please lets keep that in mind.
>>
>>Walter,
>>
>>
>>>>Rick, though I truly believe your stance has absolutely valid points, I absolutely don't agree with any relations to any holy book or religion.
>>>>Qouting parts of the bible here has absolutely no value as most people don't believe in whats written there or how you interpretate it. In stead you throw people off. So let us have the discussion outside the scope of any religion please?
>>>
>>>
>>>God is inseparable from anything that is right because everything that is right has come from God. There is a misunderstanding being taught in this world that a person can be moral or ethical aside from God, when the truth is if there be any propensity toward morals or ethics or goodness in any form ... these came from God in the first place, for He gave us our conscience and wrote upon our hearts right and wrong, having divided right from wrong in the beginning.
>>>
>>>It is only through sin that man is able to believe otherwise. But a man's belief, or a quorum of men's beliefs, or the entirety of man believing something contrary to the teachings of God does not change anything: God's ways are Right. Always and only. No matter what man says to the contrary.
>>>
>>>It is about God in all things. First, foremost, and throughout all.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>When I was a kid I copied a lot of MSX games illigally for my own use. Would i have bought the games if I could not get them in an illegal way? Absolutely not. Perhaps just a handfull out of the hundreds.
>>>>
>>>>OTOH, as a software vendor, I'm making a living out of selling software. I don't like to see people just copying my software and causing potential clients t use it illegally. It does not have anything to do with greed, but I also just need to make a living right?
>>>>
>>>>Walter,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>Ah, yeah, the guy who insults us all by claiming we never had an original thought in our heads. Yeah, right.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I don't feel insulted, people can say whatever they like - I am not affected by what another says or thinks. However, I'm not sure he means you never had an original thought - I think he means that you are given an ability to think, or a skill to perform a task, and then its up to you how you use those skills. So you never originated/created your own skills but you might apply them in original ways. At least that's what I think he means.
>>>>>
>>>>>Continued from: Message ID:1569117
>>>>>
>>>>>I also state that God gives ideas to people (as well as their abilities). They are for His purposes, so that His will is accomplished. But they are those person's ideas, gifts from God to the person, original to them, unique in their application (when they are), but they still came from God.
>>>>>
>>>>>God is not hands off in our lives. He is not "watching us from a distance" as the popular song says. He is active and working continually to steer every one of us back to Him. Only those who don't want to hear Him wil reject Him. And only for those reasons. He's taken care of every other thing.