I'm a Ken Levy fan but if I had his talents to deploy it would be entirely in software design and implementation. Lots of people are good with humans, few can do what he can with code. And with VFP the sales job / satisfaction was not needed in the VFP community - everyone there was either locked in by love, expertise or lack of imagination about other options (in some cases all three) The sales job needed to be done internally at MS (though I'm not sure there was any chance of that happening) That would have meant making VFP a middle tier tool for SQL server apps. The only argument at MS that I think would have gained traction would have been selling SQL licenses. I had a long conversation with Ken on exactly that subject at a Whilfest while he had that job. Pleasing VFP developers to sell more VFP might have kept the product alive for another cycle but all the legacy compitiblity in the world and allowing people to code against DBFs like they did in 1986 was not going to get love at MS. DBFs were not part of the future as MS saw it and the VFP UI was obsolete by 6.0 when even activex controls usually would not work. But the middle tier was a place where VFP could have brough all its power to bear, as many of us did in our business layers against SQL data.

I don't think selling more VFP was going to sway anybody to make VFP part of the future at MS, despite what we were told at the time.

But that is water under the bridge. My point is I know MS can attract some brilliant talent but when you look at their websites and their marketing strategies and what appears to be a very garbled strategic vision it would seem management is not utilizing the talent they have available as there is not clear central vision of what they are trying to accomplish. I think that is where their competitors are outperforming them and I think it will lead to the marginalization of MS and a drain of talent as those smart people look for places where their talent will be best used.




>Hi Charles,
>
>I disagree on this one. Ken did a lot for VFP as the "marketing" guy. Marketing includes designing a product that satifies customers, in this case VFP developers. Ken drove which features were going to be added and which not in versions 8 and 9, all while working with very limited resources, practically only Calvin. Before version 8 that the improvements stagnated to intellisense and few others that stand out.
>
>Alex
>
>>Remember the book years ago called The Peter Principle? The premise being you keep doing an outstanding job so you keep getting promoted until you get to a job where you are not outstanding and there you stay. I think there are a lot of managers who became managers because they were good at something and then were expected to manage it rather than do it. Not a good model. ( And because you are the star QB in the NFL and Superbowl MVP we are gonna make you Quarterbacks Coach ! )
>>
>>If I remember right Balmer was the the guy who got the clause in the original deal re DOS with IBM that allowed MS to license MS-DOS to clone-builders. Fastforward 25 years and he's jumping around on a stage shouting Developers, developers, developers.
>>
>>Sic gloria transit mundi.
>>
>>
>>>It may not have been his best calling. But I won't criticize him for taking the job when it was offered to him. He was a god in the developer community.
>>>
>>>I once asked him if he really wrote GenScrnX in one night, according to legend. He said no, not literally in one night, but the gist of it did happen in one night. He credited Steve Black with making significant contributions.
>>>
>>>>Speaking of Ken - In Ken MS had a truly superior mind, a great code wonk, a gifted software designer and they decide to make him a PR/Evangelist - community guy. I like Ken but he is not Doug or Whil in his charisma. Another example of someone not paying attention to what works and what doesn't. I'm sure Ken did a good job at what they asked him to do and I don't know him well but I can't believe he got the kind of satisfaction from it he would have from a technical challenge. I think the people who do their websites, plan their marketing strategies and design their consumer products may be brilliant people who are similarly miscast by very bad management.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Ken Levy had a perfect comment: Monkey Boy.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sometimes a video says a thousand words --
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvsboPUjrGc
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Much of this thread is devoted to avoiding having to use what I assume MS thought would be a huge success.
>>>>>>>It's a testament to the power of insider shareholders that the entire board and management of MS was not fired years ago.
>>>>>>>Vista, Sliverlight, WPF, the disaster that is Win Phone, and now Windows 8.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>These guys make the gang that couldn't shoot straight look like snipers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>(I'm gonna steal that :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Agree on all points. Balmer should have been gone 5 years ago. Don't know who the others are but whoever signed off on the guy showing off the kickstand or the open and shut clapping on his laptop or tablet or whatever the hell it is and going into a routine that looks like Nerds do Stomp really needs to go back to whatever junior college advertising program they got him from.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Heh: my experience was like others', but the difference was a) I read Hanselman regularly and b) I remembered he had a list of tricks for Win 8.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>MS did blow it, because (I would say "as usual") they ignored the psychological effect on users of what they were doing. Recent reports, including one today in Mashable and based on newly-acquired information, boot to desktop and start menu will be part of the refresh coming this summer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Anyway, I would not choose to give up my Win 8, even though Win7 was a good OS, also.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>THANK YOU!!!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I've been saying this for months.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I've been using Win8 for a few months. I rarely see the Metro screen: Win+m brings you right to the desktop. I pin the apps I use frequently to the taskbar; have infrequently used ones on the desktop. When I have to find something not there, I press the Win key, and begin typing: the list comes up, I select from the list, and I'm back on the desktop. It's really not a bother, at all.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>The OS itself is by far the smoothest I have used from MS, which is where almost all of my history and experience is. I enjoy the smoothness. Things are fast (but that's probably partly the machine: i7, 750GB hybrid drives, mirrored). Crashing an app is even smoother than Win7.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Oh, the only other trick you need (I think): when you want to restart, don't bother going to the metro screen: click on the desktop screen, enter alt+F4 (just like the old days).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Hank

wvsboPUjrGc