Plateforme Level Extreme
Abonnement
Profil corporatif
Produits & Services
Support
Légal
English
The Christian Message
Message
 
 
À
15/05/2013 13:12:53
Information générale
Forum:
Religion
Catégorie:
Autre
Divers
Thread ID:
01572909
Message ID:
01573960
Vues:
56
>>The tribulation saints, the ones that rejected Christ ... have to endure the tribulation...
>
>
>What verses do you use to support the rapture? And will people (beyond the 144,000) be saved during the Tribulation? And if so, then what verses do you use for support?

I have met people who had lots of different ideas about the rapture, and some of those viewpoints are certainly not too far off. And whatever we believe, we all will be wiser at the end when all is said and done. But personally I do believe in the pre tribulation rapture, it makes the most sense to me and the verses that are usually applied to that sound very convincing. This is a good question and it requires me to do some study.

The ones I usually refer to are 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16.

In Revelation chapters 1 to 3 the church is dealt with. After Revelation 3:22 the church is nowhere mentioned anymore, specically in the tribulation passages, the church is not mentioned at all. After Rev 3:22, where it dealt with the church, Revelation 4:1 continues "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter." That is a picture of the rapture, the sound of the trumpet and the sudden movement up to heaven. It looks almost like after Revelation 3:22 the word "Church" suddenly disappeared from the vocabulary although it appears 111 times in the New Testament and 19 times alone in the book of Revelation. If the church would be present during the tribulation, it would have been worth mentioning at least once between chapters 4 and 21, but it is indeed completely absent (except from the last chapter but this is kind of a recap of the starting point of the book). Compare 1 Corinthians 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

The Two aspects of Christ's coming:
I The meeting in the air
II The coming of Christ to the earth

They are both distinguished and don't refer to the same event and are also apart in timing. The meeting in the air is described in I Thess 4:17: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The coming of Christ to the earth is described in Rev 19:11-16 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

The order of the events is logic, because at the second coming Christ brings those with him upon the white horses (which I have identified as the bride, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.) That means the meeting in the air happend before the tribulation (otherwise the church could not be with Christ when he returns to the earth).

I think besides of the 144000 Jewish saints there should be those from all nations who have not worshipped the beast. The Jews are mentioned specifically, but the Lord always extends his grace to the nations as well. Rev 14:6-12 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Although it does not say very specifically that there are other people in that category I would conclude that there are some that don't receive the mark on their forehead or on their hand and those will suffer through the tribulation and will be joined at the marriage of the lamb together with the 144000. In fact the parable of the virgins would apply to those as well since they are under the same circumstances.

Another reference to the tribulation saints is in Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

This does not give the number of 144000 but it says more generally "They which had not worhipped the beast", so I would conclude any other person besides of the jewish remnant would be in that group as well.
Christian Isberner
Software Consultant
Précédent
Fil
Voir

Click here to load this message in the networking platform