>>I actually do not question the concept of "born again" - the transcendental, transformative experience, the apprehending over the comprehending, the agape
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>>It is a part of the human condition that has been recognized in most cultures throughout history and while I do no pretend to be able to explain it, I can testify as to its reality.
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>>I only question a single cultural context laying exclusive claim to it.
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>>Believing in - or more accurately experiencing "God" is quite a different matter than believing the Bible or the literal truth of any other description by man of what cannot be described.
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>>Textual works of man whose validity is accepted because of self-validation by the text seems a kind of idolatry. The transcendental experience - which I have no doubt you had - is quite real. The cultural context you have chosen to see it in is a choice on a different level. I have not problem with such cultural frameworks as i think it may help to incorporated the experience into ones life for some people, but it is still a shadow on the wall of the cave. The words about it are just that - words. they are not the experience and I think the point at which man's pride interferes is exactly where that cultural "naming" comes in to play.
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>>But I think your reference to "By their fruit you shall know them" is right on point. The context in which the experience is interpreted is not important - the effect it has on the individual is how the experience is validated.
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>>I have always thought the Garden of Eden to be a beautiful metaphor of the fall from grace - the losing of the mysterios , the failure of agape to be the moment when man imposes his "knowledge" (including literal scripture) on the ineffable. The need to name things - and then to quibble about the names - which are by their nature inadequate.
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>>We are all just Blind Men trying to describe an elephant.

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>That is every man until they are changed by God to be born again. Then they are no longer blind. Then they see.

You obviously do not know the tale of the Blindmen and the Elephant. You touch only a portion of the truth and mistake it for the truth. That is not seeing, that is blinding yourself to everything else for the comfort (and arrogant smugness) of thinking you have all the answers. A truly wise man has more questions than answers and has the humility to understand just how ignorant one can be.


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>>I cannot say what cannot be said, but sounds can make us listen to the silence.
>>To enter the Kingdom of Heaven you must come as a little child.
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>That passage means men must come to Jesus in the same way little children believe what you tell them -- they just accept it on faith.

I do think you believe what you have been told, just as a little child does. That is sad. A little child will continue to grow and experience, not blinded by thinking the know everything.

The passage actually means that a childlike sense of wonder and discovery is a state of grace. A certainty that no longer discovers and ceases to question is the fall from grace.

You have ceased to wonder and ceased to question and are convinced that the customs of your tribe are the laws of nature. Before being born again your education must have been very limited and your world very small or you could not find this comforting.

Do not confuse your pride and ego with the voice of god.