>>>>I love you, Victor. But Jesus loves you more.
>>>>
>>>>There is love in God. And that love will cut through everything, Victor. Everything.
>>>
>>>Every time you are confronted by fair questions like the one Victor made and you cannot or don't want to provide a proper answer you provide rubbish like this.
>>>
>>>Pathetic
>>
>>Yes and it's at this stage where I drop out of the conversation because it is now no longer a conversation. What can I say? Some people simply can't admit they are wrong about something...and since he falls into this category (on this subject anyway) he has no choice but to not answer direct and fair questions. None the less I've made my point and I'm sure somewhere, deep down inside, he's knows I'm right. I can tell when this happens because he quits responding to my questions and starts deleting things I've said in his responses. Kind of funny if you ask me as it's not fooling anyone (hence your reply).
>
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>He does not think you are right "deep down inside" at all. The truth is that you are not interested in understanding him (or he you probably). What you are interested in is in being right (from your subjective position). You want to pick apart his worldview using your worldview. You are as imprisoned in your world as he is in his. To truly understand another you need to first set aside your own ideas, your opinions, ideology and philosophy and listen without interpretation. To truly listen to another means to listen without interpretation, without agreeing or disagreeing, with liking or disliking according to what you already hold to be true. Otherwise all you have is the collective monologue - which is what all these threads are.

I see your point - but I really do want to understand his point of view. But how am I supposed to understand this when he refuses to explain it? I consider myself a pretty opened minded person & I've been known to change my mind or viewpoints based on what I've learned. When I was a 14 year old teenager I had a strong dislike of homosexuals. Around that same time I got my first computer job and the guy that I was assigned to work with (alone in a computer room) was as gay as a gay person can get. I almost didn't even take the job because of that. I kept the job for 4 or 5 years and became quite good friends with the guy & even stayed in touch many many years after I'd moved on. I assure you that in the beginning there was no way I would of wanted to of even been seen in public with the guy but in the end I was happy to go have a drink in a bar or whatever with my friend. For me is was a learning experience coupled partly with simply growing up. Frankly as far as this is concerned here, I don't consider what I'm doing as really trying to interpret, just comprehend. For me is was the simple realization that there was simply no reason not to consider the guy as a person just like everyone else and therefor I should be treating him just as I do everyone else. If all this boils down to Rick doesn't think gays should be treated equally because god told him so, then so be it...but it's still nothing other than an attempt to justify prejudice (on a mass scale). At that point it doesn't have anything to do with ideology or philosophy so pointing this out to someone like Rick might turn the page as I learned 32 years ago.