>>>>>>I love you, Victor. But Jesus loves you more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>There is love in God. And that love will cut through everything, Victor. Everything.
>>>>>
>>>>>Every time you are confronted by fair questions like the one Victor made and you cannot or don't want to provide a proper answer you provide rubbish like this.
>>>>>
>>>>>Pathetic
>>>>
>>>>Yes and it's at this stage where I drop out of the conversation because it is now no longer a conversation. What can I say? Some people simply can't admit they are wrong about something...and since he falls into this category (on this subject anyway) he has no choice but to not answer direct and fair questions. None the less I've made my point and I'm sure somewhere, deep down inside, he's knows I'm right. I can tell when this happens because he quits responding to my questions and starts deleting things I've said in his responses. Kind of funny if you ask me as it's not fooling anyone (hence your reply).
>>>
>>>
>>>He does not think you are right "deep down inside" at all. The truth is that you are not interested in understanding him (or he you probably). What you are interested in is in being right (from your subjective position). You want to pick apart his worldview using your worldview. You are as imprisoned in your world as he is in his. To truly understand another you need to first set aside your own ideas, your opinions, ideology and philosophy and listen without interpretation. To truly listen to another means to listen without interpretation, without agreeing or disagreeing, with liking or disliking according to what you already hold to be true. Otherwise all you have is the collective monologue - which is what all these threads are.
>>
>>I see your point - but I really do want to understand his point of view.
>
>No, you wish to be right. One can understand without agreeing. Understanding is one thing. Agreement, or not, comes from comparing to one's held-as-true worldview.

>>But how am I supposed to understand this when he refuses to explain it?
>
>He has explained it but from his point of view. You guys aren't talking at the same level, you're not coming at it from the same place at all and hence it's a monologue.

Not exactly - direct fair questions are not answered thus ending the dialogue. In all fairness he has now explained the reason for doing so, but I have to admit my skepticism when the reasoning is 'the devil wont let me". Perhaps I need to think about this more, but the term "cop out" comes to mind. Am I having a discussion with an adult here or am I talking to a 5 year old who says things like "the devil made me do it mom"? If you don't want to have the discussion then don't get involved in it. Don't try to say a bunch of things, then when asked to clarify (or I admit justify) you stance simply turn around and run the other way. How is anyone supposed to understand things clearly with a talk that runs like that? It's freakn stupid & I for one am not afraid to point it out.

>> I consider myself a pretty opened minded person
>
>Everyone thinks they are open minded but usually only to the extent that they agree.
>
>> Frankly as far as this is concerned here, I don't consider what I'm doing as really trying to interpret, just comprehend.
>
>You are trying to comprehend but from within your own worldview.

>> If all this boils down to Rick doesn't think gays should be treated equally because god told him so, then so be it...
>
>For Rick it's not about being gay. That is a side issue for him and his worldview.

Worlds collide sooner or later. Ok I understand that from his viewpoint being gay is a sin. I also understand that from his viewpoint selling your software more than one time is wrong. I understand that he believes that he knows something that many of us do not. I understand that he believes that all other religions (or lack of one) are wrong, thus evil, and that the people involved with them are all wrong, I understand that he can tell a gay person they're an abomination and say he loves them at the same time. What I can't do is comprehend how any such things makes the world a better place, has any practicality in 2013, or how the obvious hypocritical and prejudicial views this expresses eludes him. Right or wrong is beside the point - it just simply makes no sense to me. Of course I can't get him to explain all this from a philosophical standpoint because apparently the devil won't let him? Tell you what if the 'worldview' is screw everyone and to hell with ya'll because you're different than me then frankly I'm not so sure I even WANT to understand. Perhaps it is my compassionate nature, but I will still at least TRY to understand - if nothing else to see how this happened so I can hopefully prevent the next poor chap from being brainwashed into somehow thinking discriminatory, biggited, and hateful behavior is something socially acceptable in the USA in 2013.