>>>>>I'll grant that they're acting in ways that are scary - you won't get argument here - but the 600 lb elephant in the room that Obama and his Dems will not acknowledge is the AHCA, a system that...
>>>>>
>>>>>- roughly 75% of licensed physicians agree should be either delayed in full or repealed
>>>>>- Is nothing but a tax shell game, and should have been deemed unconstitutional for at least 3 major reasons
>>>>>- is being administered by the IRS, at a time where the credibility of the IRS is very low
>>>>>- was pushed through Congress using every dirty, under-handed tactic conceivable, and without a single Republican vote
>>>>>- current has I.T./system administration issues dealing with security and pricing accuracy
>>>>>- is being managed by people who will be handling sensitive data, and yet have not gone through a single background check, to the point where the White House has even acknowledged that identify theft is a real risk
>>>>>- According to the Manhattan Institute, will raise premiums in more states than it will reduce
>>>>>- Is opposed (either in part or in full) by roughly 2/3rds of the country
>>>>>- is opposed by more and more democrats with each passing month
>>>>>- has had no less than 3 major updates on total cost since 2009
>>>>>
>>>>>There is zero question that the system before the AHCA needed changing - 2 big areas being tort reform and pre-existing conditions. But the medicine was far worse.
>>>>
>>>>I not going to say that this is a perfect solution or even one without some problems - but over time I think it will work. We had the same type of arguments with social security got started up (eeek eeek it will bankrupt us..blah blah blah). Of course now everyone understands that SS is better than letting the old people starve and freeze. There will be 25million more people with health insurance that before - so it's not all bad.
>>>>As far as some of the things you said like "Is opposed (either in part or in full) by roughly 2/3rds of the country" - I just don't believe that. The Republicians have done everything possible to a) misinform and b) withhold information. ..and HOW that question is asked makes all the difference. Say "Affordable Heath Care Act" and everyone is for it - say "ObamaCare" and that's a different story. Fact that they are the same thing means nothing. Problem is lack of information and of course the typical 'stupid american' problem and then incorrect and false information. As for "roughly 75% of licensed physicians agree should be either delayed in full or repealed" - well I work in medical field and there is NOT any 75% of doctors saying such things that I've seen.
>>>
>>>>>We had the same type of arguments with social security got started up
>>>Alas, I have to disagree here, Victor.
>>>While it's true that there was strong conservative opposition to both bills, check the record and you'll find that Social Security and Medicare both had strong bipartisan support in the congress while AHCA was passed on strict party lines.
>>>While I think that many GOP pol's are whack jobs, all of them aren't and there was zero GOP support for this bill.
>>>You have to listen to what other people say, like it or not, or democracy won't work and our guys just didn't listen on this one.
>>
>>Riiiight -but the GOP has made it perfectly clear that no matter WHAT Obama wants, they will fight him on it....so it doesnt matter what it is or how good or bad it is for the people of the USA - they're just simply going to be against it. The GOP can be for something during Bush era - but against it during Obama era - its pathetic.
>>
>>>Some of what Kevin said can be disputed (!), but we can't dispute the fact that this legislation was jammed thru without the full support of the country and the polls, while we can dispute some of them, bear this out.
>>
>>Nothing will ever get "full support of the country' in this day and age - but with the GOP's campaign of misinformation these polls are useless anyway.
>>
>>>Anyone who has spent any time with systems knows that forcing a system on users is a recipe for failure.
>>>
>>>Unfortunately, our party blew this one, Victor. That was a huge mistake it will take a small miracle for this thing to work.
>>>
>>>The good news: we didn't invade any countries or destroy the economy the way the repubs did.
>>>The bad news: we look awfully, awfully stupid on this one.
>>
>>RIght - and listen to the GOP. We did not invade or bomb Syria - and the GOP considers the fact that we found a way to get rid of Syria's chemical weapons though diplomacy without killing a bunch of people and starting yet another war a failure. Like just how stupid can these bozo's be and actually get away with it and get re-elected to office? My faith in the American voter is zilch.
>
>
>As vicious as the repubs sound about Obama- and they do- look back at what the liberal establishment did to W.
>They crucified that guy on a personal level night and day.

True - but that guy WAS an idiot....hahaha

>Think how you'd have felt if you were a Bush supporter and were hammered with that day after day.

like an idiot ??

>That makes Fox news look pretty tame by comparison.
>Remember also, many of the dems in the senate voted to support Bush in what were undoubtedly the most monumental foreign policy blunders we have made since WWII - the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq.

Riiight - based on the lies and incorrect information that was provided to them - by Bush. Had they had all the FACTS the story would of been quite different.

>Hillary raised her hand and so did John Kerry.
>
>Remember also that some of the most vicious anti-union legislation of the past 40 years - NAFTA (Clinton) and the deregulation of the airline and trucking industries (Carter) came from dems.
>
>And don't dismiss all the repub ideas as whacky.
>If Obama had listened to Ron Paul instead of two-gun Hillary he never would have bombed Lybia, which was one of his few foreign policy mistakes.
>Fortunately, he never pulled the trigger on Syria, which would have been another blunder.
>I think that Obama has had it right on Iran from the beginning and if we're lucky and he pulls it off that legacy will soften the AHCA wounds a bit.
>
>
>Take heart, Victor.
>If you look at our political history, we tend to shine when our backs are to the wall in crises like war or depression, etc.
>In between we do some pretty stupid things like invading weak countries, NAFTA, prohibition, etc. but we tend to muddle thru.

While that might be true I think it would benefit everyone if we didn't get ourselves into the position of having back against the wall in the first place.

>As bad as it seems, you can make a difference.
>I go out and knock on doors for our local candidates and I did that for Obama.
>Talking to real people about what's on their minds is a great way to get your head straight.

hence my post here :)