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The Gospel of John
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12/10/2013 16:05:36
 
 
À
12/10/2013 13:20:38
Information générale
Forum:
Religion
Catégorie:
Autre
Divers
Thread ID:
01585237
Message ID:
01585378
Vues:
42
>>I'm afraid that in consigning me to the fiery pit you are not anywhere near the head of the line.
>
>I have not consigned you to the fiery pit. I'm warning you that unless you turn from the path you're on that's where you'll wind up.
>All people have a chance to be redeemed in this world, but as of the time of their death ... it's over. Each person's fate is sealed at that time.

You know nothing about the path I am on or the life I have lived and your arrogance in presuming you do shows just how delusional you are.

The idea of an anthropomorphic God is so absurd and so primitive and so offensive to my spirituality that I have a hard time even taking that seriously, let alone believing that such a God would be the petty tyrant you describe and eternal whatever would depend on accepting an incredibly tortured interpretation of the English translation of a document that pretty much no one even claims was divinely dictated.

if you really like that idea you have really missed the boat in not accepting Islam as at least there you have an angel directly telling The Prophet "Recite" and then afterward a pretty strong chain of custody with a knowledge that no translation is valid and that God cannot be represented or divided. You only have to accept the shahaada and from that point on at least everything is pretty logical.

Christianity has nothing remotely like that. You have only to follow the writings from the time of Eusebius and Origen on the Trinity to see just how tortured the logic had become - exceeded only by the tortures of those who at any moment came down on the wrong side of monophysitism (here's the answer - memorize it because when the trumpet sounds there is going to be a quiz :

We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach people to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [co-essential] with the Father according to the Godhead, and consubstantial with us according to the Manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; (ἐν δύο φύσεσιν ἀσυγχύτως, ἀτρέπτως, ἀδιαιρέτως, ἀχωρίστως – in duabus naturis inconfuse, immutabiliter, indivise, inseparabiliter) the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person (prosopon) and one Subsistence (hypostasis), not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten God (μονογενῆ Θεόν), the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ; as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning Him, and the Lord Jesus Christ Himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us.

Got that? You better believe it. Especially the ἐν δύο φύσεσιν ἀσυγχύτως, ἀτρέπτως, ἀδιαιρέτως, ἀχωρίστως part.

>
>It's why I warn you. I pray that you will turn, Charles.

I have a living will. If i start sounding like you there are instructions to shoot me up with LSD ala Aldous Huxley and then spin my Wheel of Samsara and let me get on to what's next.

>
>As for the contents of the Bible ... read it.

This really shows you don't read the replies to your messages. I have read it - probably more times than you have as I started when I was 6. I have also studied theology, a lot of philosophy and history and am pretty well read in Biblical scholarship as it is an area where I have an interest.

I sometimes find the nonsense you preach amusing but at other times it really does become offensive - not to me personally but to the human capacity for reason and learning and to the history and lives of genuinely spiritual people of all cultures who have struggled with great questions since the beginning of humanity

The fact that you came to your simplistic, ethno-centric, know-nothing revelation this late in life indicates there must have been some terrible trauma to trigger it. (yes, I understand the Road to Damascus thing - I don't buy it)

I no longer feel in any way restrained to be polite.

I am not discounting the realm of the spiritual. Again, you know nothing of the path I am on or of my experience of life, But I have seen enough of the world to know a fool when I see one and you are a fool who has chosen blinders to relieve yourself of the human responsibility to face the ineffable bravely and with humility.

As you have labelled me an agent of Satan I will revel in the position of devil's advocate.

The anthropomorphic representation of ineffable concepts is so childish I am not surprised you found that video so compelling, though I will say the video was far less strewn with fundamentalist nonsense than your posts and is a pretty mainstream message.

I did watch it, especially the end which in no way could be said to make an argument that the 'what is it to you" reference to whether or not John stuck around for the second coming hinted at the idea that he might still be alive,

if you paid attention all the first thing they said at the beginning was that the gospel of john was written 2 centuries after the time of Christ (more accurately it may have been 2nd century but in any case pretty much no one would contend that the author of John, the apostle and John of Patmos were the same person - at least no one who could read Greek and does not depend on internet preachers and Youtube videos for their Biblical scholarship.

>You'll find the author if you truly seek to understand what it has for you. If you don't, the walls between you and the truth (the ones you've personally erected) will forever prevent you from seeing it. It is only when you humble yourself and seek that you find.
>
>Watch this movie beginning at 1:59:00 and look at what Jesus is asking His disciples to do (John 21:15-17). It is breathtaking. The work He began by coming here, the work He finished at the cross, the work which remains for those souls being born until the time of His return:
>
>"15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
>16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
>17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep."

>
>The original text:
>http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2021&version=KJV


Charles Hankey

Though a good deal is too strange to be believed, nothing is too strange to have happened.
- Thomas Hardy

Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm-- but the harm does not interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves.

-- T. S. Eliot
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.
- Ben Franklin

Pardon him, Theodotus. He is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature.
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