>>>>>But Computer Science is not Liberal Arts. I think people major in that figuring they want to get a job (something we thought was a vulgar goal in the 60s <s> )
>>>
>>>>>And for those reasons I think Pluralsight is a much better bargain
>>>
>>>Agreed, Charles.
>>>I was fortunate to be hired right of college (liberal arts) by a large company that sent me to a fulltime 8 week programming school run by IBM.
>>>Along with some of my colleagues I went from a dead stop to being able to produce a fairly decent commercial mainframe program in that 8 weeks.
>>>We really lucked out. Our lead instructor, Ted Climis, went on to head all software development at IBM, so we had a chance to spend 8 weeks with a superstar.
>>>Ted was a tough taskmaster. A third of the group flunked out after 4 weeks.
>>>As it turned out, the liberal arts grads did better than the math, science and business majors in the group, but that was probably just the way things turned out. It could just as easily have gone the other way.
>>>Since then, I've rarely spent more than a month or two learning enough of a new language to get going.
>>>I can see a need for mentoring, though. Someone to spend a few hours with me just to get past the roadblocks that inevitably pop up.
>>>I've used Pluralsight several times and had good results, but I personally prefer E-books on my Kindle fire.
>>>
>>>I can't imagine spending 4 years learning this stuff.
>>
>>I remember that when we first got into this stuff the really gifted programmers and developers were often musicians or philosophy majors. (especially when the found this paid better than driving a cab) I never thought of myself as a math/science guy but got fascinated with computers through a love of languages.
>>
>>I have no doubt that if the goal is to be a "programmer" and get hired by a big shop - whatever that is - or IT department a CS degree is probably necessary. It is also a good route to being someone who is filling a slot that can be outsourced off shore.
>>
>>But to be a great software developer or someone who solves business problems with software, I think you have to be able to write your own cirricula, take advantage of the learning materials and know how to pick the technologies that interest you and are in demand or appropriate to the kind of stuff you want to do. I don't see how a CS department at a university can be agile enough to offer that, even it the student is ready for it and they can find people to teach it.
>
>Thinking things through clearly, analyzing ambiguity (and tolerating ambiguity long enough to analyze it), are the hallmarks of a liberal education. In fact, some NYU profs just did research showing that people who read classic fiction are more empathic, understand other people better: it's a skill, and using it makes one better at it. I don't think these things can be underestimated as essential for upper-level software development jobs.
>
>As for the details: I learned Fortran IV from the 3 IBM self-teaching books available in the bookstore. In 2 weeks while keeping up with grad school. The only thing they didn't each was how to use the keypunch. <s>
>
>I would still suggest someone interested in software development get the best liberal arts education they can. And work on programming on the side, learning and/or working. In fact, I'm mentoring a student at a liberal arts school who is interested in computer science and psychology: another good mix, even if I do say so.
>
>Hank

Ah, the keypunch machine. Brings back many happy memories. Not.