>>Mark 1:7-8 - NIV - "7 And this was his message: 'After me comes the one more powerful than I, the
>>straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie. 8 I baptize you with water, but he
>>will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."
>>
>>Water baptism is a baptism of repentance, and is the first act a Christian will go through. It is the
>>recognition that one has sinned, and is in need of forgiveness. Jesus' first miracle was also turning
>>water into wine, a related act of taking the one in repentance through the transformation, whereby
>>the entire nature of who they are is changed, as per the rebirth, and the Holy Spirit coming to dwell
>>within them.
>
>I think you are correct in saying that there are two distinctive baptisms, and what John was referring to
>was the baptism of Jesus that is commonly referred to as "receiving the holy ghost" in the remainder of
>the new testament. I think in this detail what I believe is that the Water baptism is not the first, but the
>second act of a believer.

No one can come to the Son unless God the Father draw him. As such, there is no movement toward coming to repentance without the Father drawing Him. I still view that as a drawing, and not the final and permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

>You can see that clearly when Paul preached to the gentiles and the sign of the filling of the holy ghost
>convicted the gentile believer, he commanded to subsequently get him baptized in water, following the
>instruction given in the last chapter of Matthew. Acts 10:47 "Can any man forbid water, that these should
>not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?" Those that are born again by the
>Spirit are the ones who should get baptized, not vice versa.

I don't view water baptism as being only the explicit act of being submerged in water, but rather I see it as the state of coming to repentance, to acknowledge that one is a sinner, and that one needs to have remission of sins. The physical dunking act of immersion in water is an outwardly symbolic representation of the inward state.

>The water baptism is the outward testimony of the believer to show what has happened inwardly. Peter called
>it a 'figure' of the act of salvation:

Exactly.

>1 Peter 3:21 "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth
>of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Yes. This is not water baptism as by dunking, but the baptism of the Holy Spirit, the only saving mechanism there is (for no one can enter into the Kingdom of God unless he be born again of the spirit).

>A lot of Christian churches (also the Catholic Church) turn it around, making the water baptism the first act of salvation
>and then continue to work on their salvation by their own works after that. Remember that salvation is not by our works
>of righteousness, but by faith in Christ and trusting in his sacrifice. our own self-righteousness is worth just a few filthy
>rags and could not save a tiny ant.

As I say, I do not consider the water baptism to be the physical dunk only. If you'll recall, when Jesus turned water into wine, He had them fill the six pots of two or three firkins (20 to 30 gallons) each, which were filled to the brim. All the way up. This is symbolic of the man who comes to realize he is a sinner, and is in need of repenting. The thief on the cross did this, but it is not recorded that he was baptized, but rather he was brought to that state where he knew he was a sinner and was in need of salvation.

I view this as the first part of the process, as with Jesus turning water into wine (the water of repentance, into the wine of the one born again of the spirit).

>>To baptize someone changes them. In this life, most people saved are not like the thief on the cross
>>who came to believe hours before his death. Most of us have much to go through after we are saved
>>(often many years of life).
>If you refer to the baptism of the spirit, I agree with you.

I don't believe that baptism of the Holy Spirit comes before the water baptism of repentance, be there any physical water or not. I will continue to study this point, but what I describe as water baptism does not require water, but is that stage of being drawn by God to recognize oneself as a sinner, in need of forgiveness. I believe this drawing in is not yet the spiritual rebirth because some people who hear and accept the message gladly later fall away because they were never born again.

>>Very few people are being saved. Very few.
>
>Don't be so pessimistic! In Revelation you can see that it's quite a lot, adding all those together
>from the centuries, so that you would have a hard time counting them: 7:9 After this I beheld,
>and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people,
>and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms
>in their hands;

Yes. It is a mystery. There exists a countless number. That we know. We also know that Jesus told us, Matthew 7:13-14, "13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

I remember also, Acts 2:21, "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

I have considered aborted babies, children in general who die at a young age, and other things like in the final days before Jesus returns, people calling out to Jesus before the time of their death, and more. The truth is I don't know how the number is so big, but I have an inner drive to pursue Him with great passion, vehemence, and holiness. I also feel convicted when I step too far away from the same.