>>There is one reason, and one only, why nobody has stepped forward. The level of expertise certainly exists.
>And I just told you what it is. They don't see the same value in it they do.

That is certainly true (though for different reasons).

>You could try to make up for it by being charming. Being attentive to other people's wants and
>needs and trying to demonstrate value of your product in a context they can understand.

How does one introduce a new vision by catering to what already exists, or by catering to the limitations being sought after in something akin to amalgams of existing toolsets? It's not possible.

>But you go the opposite route. A total turn off. If you don't understand and acknowledge that,
>other people's values, why would any one want to collaborate with you?

I have stated all along that the only way this project will succeed is if the Lord desires it to succeed. I have resolved myself to completing it, and I am pressing forward despite the many impediments.

I have made a lot of progress, but there is still much to do. If it is to be, then at the right time the right people will come forward. And if not ... then I have done my level best and will be content there.

>>>And what you're creating already exists, with massive support and a community (hard as it is to
>>>believe) more robust and active than VFP's ever was. It's Python.
>>*SIGH* Non-sequitur again. It's not the same, Mike, and you know it. It's not even close.
>How many websites are written in VFP compared to Python?
>How many robotics projects? Statistics libraries? Game engines?
>How many 12 year olds are using VFP vs Python?

Visual FreePro allows people to create "websites" without doing any coding. They can deploy their existing application onto the web without doing anything other than altering how the product is run. It will simply use the existing forms already in use, reports, tables, everything, it will just use them remotely.

Mike, I'm trying to redefine the way things are done, not to embrace the existing standards and protocols which make things unnecessarily difficult. In the VFP3 design, we had enough ability to deploy online (were that layer added by Microsoft). It is very easy to design a form with all custom code on methods, in classes, and hook up tables to it, and process locally on a machine. This requires a minimal runtime install in VFP, and can be distributed as needed. With Visual FreePro, the same type of system works both locally or remotely. You simply install Visual FreePro, and then run an app which connects to data. No web protocols. No complex other languges to learn. Just xbase code with whatever augments I end up supporting (initially a relaxed C/C++ language), and the standard data interchange as would be seen on a local app and, since Visual FreePro is also a server, it provides push abilities to synchronize across multiple users in machine-limited real-time.

>Anyhoo, here's my point.
>
>There's tons of cool stuff happening right now and there is huge momentum in a few languages
>and people that are likely to volunteer are going to volunteer there.
>
>There's probably a few hundred people in the world that care about VFP's exact syntax and you've
>managed to piss most of them off and you don't seem able to see it and you don't seem able to
>accept anyone's input... and...
>Why again do you expect people to collaborate?

You have great skills in non-sequiturs, Mike. Questions like, "Do you still beat your wife?" are commonplace. There's no way to answer these types of questions without coming from a defensive position. So ... I will correct your question: Since I don't expect anyone to collaborate, which renders that part of your question a non-sequitur, your question should be re-written to something like: "Why again aren't people collaborating with you on your project?"

Xbase in general, and VFP specifically, was a viable data accumulation and processing tool for 25+ years. There exists a tremendous number of applications written for this code base. Those products are well-developed, well-debugged, well-tested, tried, and true. The biggest issue for most of them is they look aged compared to modern GUIs because Microsoft never gave VFP any kind of decent facelift.

With Visual FreePro, the ability to give those existing apps, which often represent decades of man-hours, a facelift, along with extended abilities which easily transform the app into the Internet age, are present, and are wholly desirable to the many VFP gurus who are still around and kicking, not looking forward to re-writing their apps from the ground up.

The company I work for has a dozen apps they've written over the past 25 years, about one-third of these still have many customers paying annual service contracts which keeps us, our salesmen, trainers, and support staff in business. We provide a service they need, and we do a good job of it (especially in the area of live call support).

There are many other companies which all have applications they've written as well. And for the cumulative cost of hiring me as one developer for about a year, all of those existing products in use today could be extended, given a new lease on life, with the ability to extend their functionality through plugin GUI enhancements, to skin controls, or theme the app, to add remote access over the Internet, and much more in my base design.

The need is there. The interest is there. And the features in VFrP's design are there. The extensibility exists in to add on top nearly anything a developer could conceive of, and it includes a complete compiler framework layer which would support a plugin to allow your coffeescript language to be compiled with edit-and-continue abilities through the Visual FreePro compiler architecture, called RDC (Rapid Development Compiler).

What I have created has employed the full extent of my software developer abilities. What I have not had is the resources necessary to devote to it full time. And that is where I see the opportunity for others to come together on board with this project and bring it to fruition, to breathe new life into those aging applications which work well, but look bad. The opportunity exists to save their man-hours of labor and apply some cosmetic surgery to the fringes and release new products which operate similarly, yet with many new features available. And, since we own the source code, the ability exists to add anything else we see in any other project.

People don't have to be low-level developers to help in this way. They can provide funding to get the product created. If they have some C/C++ skills, they can provide testing to verify internal functionality. And so on. It doesn't have to be high-end expertise knowledge, but only the desire to move forward with a product Visual FreePro, bringing new life to Visual FoxPro applications.

>Hey, take it from someone who knows.

Do you? As I read your posts I see you looking at the tools we have today, and then moving forward toward those tools which you like best from what exists. You do not seem to me to be the kind of person who steps back, clasping his chin in thought and saying to yourself, "What's the best path forward to do this right, not only for myself, but for others as well?" That is from where I proceed.

What I'm trying to give people is the ability to have no limits, to not be tied to corporations and corporate ideals that limit mobility by money serving as their navigational star. Instead, I look to user needs, developer needs, and long-term ideals of the kind of environment I want my data processed in. I want to have a system where I can put stuff on the cloud if I want, but I don't have to. I want a system where I can run everything locally on my machine without a web-browser interface if I want, but I don't have to. I want to give people choices, and empower individuals, not corporations or power-groups.

I look at these things, and then I run toward the best solution, hand clapsed at chin, considering the big picture in each aspect of my design. I wrote my own VM because I want my own creation from the ground up that I can modify, extend, revise, port, etc., without ties to existing goals which are not part of this serving-people viewpoint. I wrote my own compiler framework for the same reasons. I am writing my own xbase language which is nearly 100% compatible with Visual FoxPro because I have a tremendous amount of xbase and VFP code that I do not want to lose. And I am doing all of this for the Lord because I am a Christian and I do recognize that His teachings of "Love thy neighbor as thyself," this is not just a cliche or nice phrase, but it is truly the right way to be. I am moving forward in that vision, walking this path because of those, my core beliefs, and these, my core set of abilities.

It will no doubt sadden me if I proceed alone to the project's completion. My heart is truly a heart of flesh, and I am a man with real feelings. And I cry often over the time I devote to this project, and the negativity I receive because I place the Lord ahead of me. But I know the value in what I'm doing, and I continue because of that knowing. And I spend my free time working on this project for the Lord, and for all of you, so I can make your lives better, and mine as well.

It is a rewarding end in and of itself, but it saddens me that other people don't also see the reward in that end as well.

I appreciate your input, Mike. Your other post about figuring out how to programmatically "not ban" a user is a most harmful thing, and one which will cause more pain in the end than you realize. I ask you to reconsider your thoughts on these kinds of things because they are not right, and they do harm people.

I ask you also to consider what I'm doing. There are many on this board who are angry with me because I am a Christian, and because I place Jesus first, and advise other people to place Jesus first as well. But I ask you to look at what it is I'm doing because of how He's changed me. I'm not out pursuing selfish ends, but instead I am spending every free moment working for your betterment, and the betterment of others. I am using my labor to increase your life, and the lives of others. I have created a product design which uses the fullest set of skills I possess, one with goals to increase your abilities as a developer, and also the lives of your users and their businesses, etc. I have persisted on this project for over 20 months not only receiving no help in software development, but also a continuous, active onslaught of negative posts relating to my faith, the project itself, and the project being built atop of that faith. Yet I proceed. Why? It's because the things I talk about and teach related to the change in a born again Christian are real. The evidence is here in my heart, given for each of you to see.

The things I am on about are the betterment of each of us collectively, and individually, because all of us are here together, and all of us are here to help one another, and all of us are here to glorify God in so doing. It is nothing more than that. I desire all of us to have better, fuller, richer lives, and not just here upon this Earth for the tick of time we'll be here.