>>>>For my ears, the french r is pronounced somewhere at the root of the tongue, not the tip (like most european ones are), so it's not so distinct (or rolled, as we call the english r), but I can clearly recognize when it's pronounced.
>>>
>>>I see the difference between 'crois' and 'croissant' as 'night' and 'day' :)
>>
>>Seeing it is easy. But do you hear it? :)
>
>Tamar is hearing the exact sound I am; so she and I were on the same page. Lutz was the first who correctly brought up the notion of nasal 'r' and not guttural 'r' that all the "experts" were hearing :)

But listening to the Google translate page, I do hear more than the "w" I cited. And, in fact, I did say "something like 'kw'." I think nasal is the key here.

I also think that Michel wasn't saying it was guttural, just that it was heard. To him, the distinction between the "r" in "crois" and the "r" is "Pierre" is a given.

Tamar