>>I can agree with that. However, when you and John and Obama speak about this, IMHO, you tend to minimize the efforts of the individual in favor of glorifying the collective. That is what I have a problem with.

In fairness, words like "glorify" and "collective" are entirely yours as well as dripping with loaded meaning. Nobody says these things except you, Marcia.

In Carson's case, society and family (and religion according to him) supported him until he had the means to fly away, and boy did he fly high. The nest has every reason to feel proud without taking away a single molecule of his achievement. Just as it costs nothing to give a smile to somebody who doesn't have one, it doesn't diminish this man's success for his nest to be proud of what they did to help him on his way. Nor does it increase his honor to insist that there was no nest.

As an aside: if this were a sporting event, does it diminish the winner's achievement for people to credit their coach as well? Or is the win diminished because the coach is usurping part of the credit to glorify themselves?