>>Until you understand that ObamaCare was not and is not in a 'death spiral' this conversation will be pointless.

None of the stuff you raise rebuts the realities reported by insurers themselves, not your hated GOP.

>>There is no 'logic' that would make HRC a worse president than Donald Trump.

I don't agree with all of it, but I get what Bill is saying. Just because you can't follow it, doesn't make it wrong.

>>I say than only an idiot would think that the problem with Moore is the same as the problem with Fraken. Not making excuses for Fraken - but we're talking about two totally different things with two totally different people who have responded two totally different ways.

Moore denies it; Franken doesn't. I say that US law gives Moore the benefit of the doubt until fair due process is followed.

>>Oh sorry make that an entire shopping mall of witnesses and 9 women (so far). And he's a child molester ...well probably a serial child molester. I have a problem with such a person holding office. You would think he's saying 9/11 happened because of sodomy and the fact he was kicked off the bench as a judge twice would be enough , not to mention some of his insane rulings he made (you can look that up and be horrfied)-- but not if it means you get a republican in congress - because it appears that they value a republican in the seat more than that of the life of a child.

Ignoring your trademark inaccurate paraphrase about sodomy and the shopping mall: clearly you have no idea why he was kicked off the bench. And if you want to live in a world where accusers can destroy your prospects without any due process, maybe you should try one of the corrupt third world hell holes that go in for that stuff. Because in democracies, that's not how we carry on.

For the umteenth time, I support the principle underpinning most Western democracies that you're innocent until proven guilty. Even if I don't like the accused. The corollary as stated by Benjamin Franklin is that "it is better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer".

You're not the first to disagree with Franklin and generations of enlightened jurists on this topic: Dick Cheney's support for "enhanced interrogation" was not changed by 25% of tortured suspects later being shown to be innocent, including one who died of hypothermia. Cheney said he was "more concerned with bad guys who got out and released than I am with a few that in fact were innocent." I'm surprised that you'd want to be on the same side as Cheney rather than Franklin and most legal and ethical thinkers, but that's what you seem to be saying.