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Thursday 9-27 - what's gonna happen
Message
 
To
27/09/2018 00:30:23
John Ryan
Captain-Cooker Appreciation Society
Taumata Whakatangi ..., New Zealand
General information
Forum:
Politics
Category:
News
Miscellaneous
Thread ID:
01662229
Message ID:
01662347
Views:
10
>>>He said he fired Comey over Russia investigation. That is obstruction of justice here in the USA.
>
>Here in the USA I accept that fake news encourages a lay interpretation of the meaning of obstruction to beat on their anti-Trump drum, but actually it's a legal definition requiring several elements including "mens rea" and an "official proceeding" being obstructed. Now you might think a FBI investigation is an official proceeding, but in legal terms, I don't think it is.
>
>In my investigation I started with mens rea that seems quite a stretch, especially if you say he made an unwitting admission on TV- and then the recent SC Marinello v. United States decision seems to require government to show a nexus between conduct and a particular "official proceeding" that must at least be in the offing. To see whether an FBI investigation is the official proceeding being obstructed, my read of United States v. Ermoian says it can't be- because an FBI investigation is not a proceeding before a federal agency within the meaning of the statute. So what is he supposed to have obstructed?

The investigation of his campaign.

>I had thought that one way for Mueller to get Trump for obstruction is to trick him into admitting it- but even that won't fly without an official proceeding to be obstructed. So I'm thinking it's now down to his being trapped in perjury like Flynn and that other one. If my understanding is correct that Trump won't be interviewed but will answer written questions, I can't see him being trapped in perjury and in the absence of a credible crime I don't believe Mueller can force more than this. So I'm thinking Mueller must be drawing to the end of his investigation- based on what I can see, which I agree may not be everything. But obstruction over the Comey thing? IMHO you might as well forget it.

Good argument on your part - and I tend to agree with most of it. The obstruction over Comey thing I do not think is such a big stretch as a possibility - keep in mind we do not know what else Muller has, but I'd say it's safe to say that he has more than one T.V. interview from Trump himself as part of what information he's gathered.
A look at recent history is helpful here too - as it was obstruction of justice that eventually ended the Nixon presidency. This is why the the prospect of him maybe firing Rod Rosenstein is such a big deal - as he controls Muller. Thus far he has not fired the guy because everyone around him has told him how this would be considered obstruction - but Trump is an idiot who eventually ....in the long run every time .... listens to know one but himself and might go ahead and do it. Sure the whole GOP will beg him to not upset the apple cart like that during supreme court nomination -- but if that is going badly enough he might do it as part of a distraction as that seems to be his method of operation. Buuuut.. looking at the week thus far he does have his fair share of self-generated distractions already -- you got his buffoonery at the UN where the whole world laughed at him -- then you got some unfounded allegations against China and oh yeah piss of Iran a bit too -- only to be topped off by one of the most ridiculous press conferences ever...and it's only Wednesday! lol lol lol! Maybe Rod is in the clear for now lol.
ICQ 10556 (ya), 254117
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