>>>Trade deal (which isn't even ratified yet) does not result in money going into the Treasury John -- it's pretty simple dude. Trump lied no matter how you look at it.
>
>Show me where Trump said the trade deal (or Mexico) would cut a check in advance, which is the absurd straw man you have assigned to him.
>
>FWIW, IMHO his latest version that Mexico will indirectly pay for the wall via the trade deal (with "indirectly" being a word fact checkers like to exclude) is a stretch compared to the impression given earlier, but IMHO it's no more a lie than Obama's "if you like your doctor" statement that was also true in context that Joe Average won't have expected. I never saw that as a lie by Obama either, as KG can attest. ;-)

Sorry, JR, but I the "if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor" WAS a lie.

I am careful to use the word lie. I distinguish between someone being seriously but somehow honestly wrong, and those who make statements in such direct contradiction to their other statements and actions, that there's no room to doubt the motive.

In the case of Obama, he said in a recorded CSPAN interview that he knew 5-9 million would lose their plan. Both before and after that statement (and about 3 dozen times in all), he used the "let me be clear, if you like your doctor..." His own policy people told him in 2012-2013 to stop using that line because of how bad it was, and there are reports that Democratic Senators asked him to stop saying it.

The problem with those who defend Obama here is that they often somehow believe it was a "lie that was good for people in the long run", When my conservative friends get confused by my libertarian views and ask me why I'm not a liberal, that's the #1 issue I have with liberals - the way they justify lies.