Hi Daniel

Thanks for chiming in. I cannot comment on WinDev prior to, say, 5 years ago, 2014 or thereabouts as that is when we got serious with it.

In terms of syntax coding language - WinDev is almost identical to VFP. So much so that I can copy VFP code into a WinDev code editor and just replace each VFP code line with equivalent WinDev code/functions. If anyone is interested just look at the WinDev online help website which is very extensive. For example, for a list of functions by category start here:

https://help.windev.com/en-US/search2.awp?origin=browse&cat=standard-functions,484

Then look at, for example, functions for managing strings:

https://help.windev.com/en-US/search2.awp?origin=browse&cat=functions-for-managing-strings,263

You will immediately see the similarity and how easy they are to use, just like in VFP. For example:

VFP Replicate() => RepeatString()
VFP AT() => Position()
VFP Len() => Length()
VFP Left() => Left()
VFP Right() => Right()
VFP Substr() => Middle()

One obvious difference is you must declare your variables before using them and their type. But this actually becomes a huge benefit because then the code editor makes sure you use them all correctly. This is a very minor thing to get used to.

In respect of marketing material; So they show “beautiful” women in their brochures (now also “handsome” men). Perhaps it's a French thing, I don't know and I don’t care. What counts is that the product does what we need it to do. We are in the business of creating solutions for clients. On a personal level I try and help the world in other ways; fighting for “social justice” in PCSoft marketing materials is not my main worry about the state of the world to be honest.

In respect of the database engine; WinDev can connect to virtually any 3rd party database but also comes with a free database engine called HyperFile. It can run in 2 modes; (1) like VFP DBFs, individual files and indices, or (2) in full Client/Server mode with all the benefits that entails. In both cases files can have triggers, rules, relations, etc. which are all defined visually using their built-in "Project Analysis" tool which you also use to define files, fields, indices, etc. The whole design is visually represented. For all intents and purposes it is as fast as VFP but comes with extra benefits, for example, built-in full memo text search indexes, built in encryption, etc. What I have found is that a WinDev data file which has the same number of records and fields as a VFP DBF will be often much larger. I don’t know why but suspect this has to do with supporting the additional functionally built into the database such as automatic index optimizations, automatic re-usage of deleted record space, etc. etc. In my opinion, anything you lose (vs. VFP) you gain in some other area.

In respect of complaints; One of the complaints I see is that PCSoft do not disclose a list of current bugs in their products. I understand why but can see why developers find that irritating. Another thing is that they will investigate any bug you find BUT you must give them a working project that they can compile and run to reproduce the issue. They will not just work off your verbal explanation.

In respect of bugs; Yes I have found more than a couple and reported them. Some they fixed, others they find so esoteric that they don’t make a special fix but might address it in a future release. Again, I can understand their business decision process in that. Not every bug is worth spending time on especially if it affects that one programmer trying to do something really “out there”. I don’t have a problem with that.

In respect of the ugly for VFP developers; their built in native access to DBF files (i.e. the ability to open a DBF file directly using WinDev functions) has some sort of bug in it related to the associated CDX file. And also their native access does not read the memo fields directly, you then need to use the ODBC driver instead. I found these two issues when trying to convert our existing databases into WinDev HyperFile databases. I did solve both issues obviously. However, PCSoft will not fix this bug because they say it affects too few developers now for them to hassle about it. But there is a work-around.

In respect of the ugly for VFP #2; there is no Command Window. You cannot just type some code or expression in a little window and see the result. However, there are lots of workarounds and alternate options. I thought this would be a great loss for but it was easily dealt with and more than compensated for in other productivity imporvements.

In respect of the ugly for VFP #3; I think WinDev's equivalent of macro substitution is slower than in VFP. Only visible in significant loops of course but we actually have a recursive function that uses macro substitution so that was a bit of work to get it up to reasonable par speed to the VFP version (not quite as fast though). Or perhaps we just dont know enough of how to do it properly or better, very possible.

In respect of “gotchas”; You need to become familiar with WinDev HyperFile seek/search functions especially on combined fields such as a string with a DTOS() on a date field and on strings which can be variable length or fixed length. I got tripped up several times with that but in the end it’s a morning of playing around to understand the slightly different indexing and searching methodology.


>Hi Jos, Denis and all contributors (and lurkers)!
>
>Thanks to everyone for their fair and thorough contributions to this great thread. It's really a pleasure to follow in the tradition of intellectual honesty and camaraderie that everyone appreciate here on the the UT:-)
>
>Special thanks to you, Denis for starting it up, and you Jos, for this detailed and quite unique feedback and perspective on Windev from VFP developer POV. IMHO THAT IS REALLY HELPFUL.
>
>>I have no idea who is talking or showing you WinDev but they clearly are not in the know. For all intents and purposes
>>WinDev is as fast as VFP. Obviously there might be areas where one is faster/slower than another but this sort of
>>nit-picking doesn’t interest us.
>
>I definitely have an opinion on the matter:-)
>
>During the nineties and very early years of this century - yes I am old man - I was already a long time Foxbase-turned-VFP developer and was in permanent contact with an early Windev "dévelopeur". Yep they were ALL French, and MALE at that time... And their marketing material really sucked from a visual standpoint (Am I clear enough?). But we discussed the merits of VFP and Windev at that time, quite often by the way.
>
>At that time, Windev was already an extensive "atelier de developpement logiciel" with significant merit, a large base of dedicated Gallic followers, and a lot to offer. But the language grammar was not that of, say, pascal, smalltalk or python. I was already using python and wanted no experience of what was at that time a half-baked grammar. Really Windev code was an unpleasant read by the turn of the century. And, most important, the speed of the internal engine was poor especially in view of what we could achieve with fox!
>
>We are now definitely twenty years older and somewhat wiser... And I understand that PCSoft, the Windev editor has nt shied way from work! Specifically their dev team have :
>1) evolved the specific cover and the grammar in a very positive way. You won't find the French-Academia educated-in-C-and-Java young developers complaining in French-speaking forums anymore that they had been "forced to use" this subpar language. Yes there were quite a few! Jos does not complain either, great:-)
>2) improved the overall speed. I understand from Jos that It it is on par with what you can expect from an up-to-date tool. The "local engine" speed issues that were critical twenty years ago, are something of such an old past that even Jos is not aware:-)
>
>As is typically expected from a monopoly business, Microsoft ditched and spoiled VFP and even their Access competitor. But, lucky we are, a relatively small and un-financed shop in the South of France, has grown into a solid provider to business-solution-builders such as the people here on the UT.
>
>Bravo!
>
>Daniel
>
>PS: I have zero vested interest into Windev either as a family or business. Not even geographically. I dwell much nearer to the Belgium and Netherlands than from the French Riveria Monpellier where the Windev "PCSoft" shop is located :-)