The problems with the default tableupdate() as called from buttonset.updatetables is what I am trying to solve. The requirements for update are far beyond what VFP gives by default, in such a complex view. The view itself is made from three other views,plus tables so I know there is no choice, if I stay with the view, but write my own Update/insert funcs. What I was realy hoping for was a way to avoid the view in the first place. Unfortunatley, loading 10,000 records just to update one is not satisfactory, and thus far the view is the only work around I have found. Only two child tables from the view load more records than they should. Basicly though, if I was to call SCATTER MEMVAR in buttonset.updatetables, would I get the updated fields? If so, it would not be too hard to write the update. I checked, and can bail out of the assorted row level triggeres by comparing :old.Value to :New.Value which solves the !update if ! dirty problem