>Hi All:
>
>I was turned down for a programming job today , no biggy, but I've not run into this problem before and would like your opinion(s) - I'm not a real professional like most of you here on UT.
>
>The job was to write a POS program for a small retail store. I spoke with the owner for about 3 hours. The job was straight forward - I think I had a lot of it already written, in my head, at the end of out meeting.
>
>The owner then threw me a curve. He said he wanted to get a manual first - then we'd work out changes (deletions, and/or additions) to the design and functionality. I told him that I don't think that's possible. He said that all professaional programs starts with manuals then after approval from the hirer the actual programming begins. I again, told him that it wasn't possible. He told me "good day", and I left confused.
>
>Can someone tell me if what this guy said is true or not? If so, how can you write a manual before at least a proto-type is done - in other words, before any coding?
>
>Thank you,
>
>Mal

Malcolm,

How much is your time worth these days? *g* Are you going to do the manual for free? No way man.. Stop for a minute and think this through. What is he giving you in return? A vague promise that maybe he will do the project IF you create a functional manual on a non-existent product? You can surely create a functional spec and some prototypical screen shots and even a data flow diagram and so forth but doing this should cost something, either by rolling the expense into the overall project or as a separate agreement.

Let me ask you a simple question - we're you offered a dollar amount, fixed or otherwise? IOW, what did the client offer you for doing this work?

If one of my clients wants me to do a business analysis and and prepare a functional specification and/or a proposal, then they should be willing to recognize that this part of my time is MORE important than actually writing the code. If they do not then I tend to think they're the kind of client that will want to pay little or nothing and gripe about everything - that is, they will tend to want to manage the project by guilt.

From what you have said this one stinks.

I usually return the favor. I decide if I really have the time and want the hassles, and if I do, for what price am I willing to put up with projects like this? I usually want to see what the client's "wince factor" is. That is, what price do they wince at. *g*

And for goodness sakes don't agree on a fixed price EVER without an absolutely rock-solid specification AND a change clause that will cost the client if they abuse the contract.

Just be careful. And don't hesitate to talk with your peers. There are many many people here with TONS of this kind of experience who will be more than willing to help you out, ok?

You probably should seek the help of a good intellectual property rights lawyer. That's a part of doing business and they're worth EVERY PENNY you pay them. Well, for the good ones anywats... *bg*

I'm NOT saying this cannot be a winner for you but you need to not lose control of the process, by intimidation or otherwise.

It's a CLASSIC sales technique to take something away from someone to see if they really want it. That seems to be what is happening here. If you chase the contract then they control you. I'd probably double or triple my price, put it on the table with MY conditions and walk away.

Maybe you can find one already written and go that route. There are a LOT of POS systems out there and I'd bet one would match the requirements of this guy. You be the middle man and get a cut on the price and get some dough by making the modifications.

Why reinvent the wheel.

Best,

DD