Bob/Steve:

Though things cost a lot more in Hawaii,than in most other states. I have not heard of custom programming costing more than $95/hr. That's a fee that you can charge if you have the customers some what "cornered" ... i.e. You sell them SBT, than you say "if you need customization, the fee is $95/hr".

It could be becuase I'm not in the "main stream" professional programmer business that I haven't heard of $100/hr plus rates. I'm just getting started in this an can't bring myself to charge that much - not enough confidence, I guess. Am also very happy to get a programming job - love doing it.

I would love to make a living from programming. It is a very exciting career. Presently, I get jobs from "word of mouth" - could be because I'm not expensive. I seem to be getting more and more jobs, however, sometimes I sit and think that I'd make more money working at McDonald's if they let me put in all the overtime I wanted. The reason I'm looking into a Framework is becuase I'd like to finish jobs faster.

I'm looking to become a professional like you guys(& gals <s>). I'm also looking forward to a day when an attorney calls me and I tell him "I charge $200/hr. but you get the first hour of consultation free" :o)

I will be studing the frameworks carefully.

Thanks for you advice(s).

Mal




>>Stephen:
>>
>>That's funny you brought that up. I was just planning to purchase VFE. Do you prefer Mere Mortals? Also just purchased Hacker's Guide - been spending lots of money on books. Not sure if I can at this time afford a Framework - still on the calculator.
>>
>>You know how expensive it is here, and yet, the pay scale is not in par with the mainland.
>>
>>Only power programmers like Rick S. can really make a living with VFP in Hawaii, I feel. You gotta be good, that all.
>>
>>Mal
>>
>
>I have seen VFE and its a great product. VFE is very much in control of your app, and thats great for small ones. Mere Mortals gives lot's more flexiblity but you can't get something for nothing.
>
>VFE does lots of little stuff for you. MM you have to do all your self. That goes to setting up labels for every control you put on a form, look ups to other tables for data validation. VFE does this because you have set up a data dictionary. This is what MM is missing today.
>
>If you are doing tough systems, and they are all tough ;-> , it will be harder to bend VFE to work. It can be done though.
>
>If you are getting those nice little 15 table apps for a small business then VFE is hard to beat! When it gets to the 150 table apps it's a different story.
>
>Now comming to billing. If you do good work, then getting good money is easy. Confidince from the developer if necessary to get the good money. Billing in excess of 50 per hour, for all work, going for 75 or 100 becasue you have enough on your plate is the first step. When @ 100 and going for 150 is easy. It's hard for you to feel that but that is a business foundation. Supply & Demand.
>
>__Stephen
>
>>
>>>>Stephen:
>>>>Thanks for your help, as always.
>>>>Guess I should get some book on this eh?
>>>>
>>>>Mahalo,
>>>>
>>>>Mal
>>>>P.S. Yes, I'll watch out for those McNakamuras and O'Tokunagas type customers.
>>>>
>>>Purchase the Mere Mortals Framework, and get a great manual that goes into why we do these things. The framework runs 450?? but the time it will save you over the long haul it's a drop in your billing budget.
>>>
>>>www.oakleafsd.com
>>>
>>>Good luck.
>>>
>>>__Stephen