>>I think you are misunderstanding my point here...
>
>Possibly.

Probably..< s >...


>>And, while I think concepts on their own are OK, they are are much better presented in the scope of practical work.

>If applicable. Many times, they're not.

Fine, give me an example of where it is detrimental to have practical work presented in the context of conceptual material. And please, try not to make the example too contrived...< s >...


>>With that in mind, what is is that provides value? Bleeding edge theory that nobody can apply?
>
>Just because it'e bleeding edge doesn't mean nobody can apply it. Everything that we work with was bleeding edge at one time, and it had to be taught to everybody that didn't invent it.

< s >... you missed the point. The fact is, most folks used to be 6 months behind the technology curve. Now, it is more like 12-18 months. Why do you think the Devcon Sessions are more curriculum oriented and more practical. People wan't to know how to do their jobs today. Sure, you need to sprinkle the spice of bleeding edge stuff in here and there. However, you don't have one at the expense of another... Again, you missed the point...< s >...


>>Tell me, who would you rather go listen to for a C/S session. Somebody who has actually worked with C/S backends and delivered applications, or somebody who has textbook knowledge of SQL and has heard about how SQL backends work?
>
>
Again, if the person knows enough to cover the lecture material and confidently answer relative questions correctly, I don't care. Why should I? Pointing out technical errors with somebody's presentation or articles is one thing- discrediting it soleley because you think that their knowledge is gained from books instead of work is a useless endeavor, IMO.
>

What happens when several people in the audience ask a question based on real-work and the presenter keeps saying, "Well, I have not actually "done" real work with this...." Do you not think the credibility of the presenter is weakened?

>>Case and point, Steve Black is great at presenting patterns. Why? Because he has employed the concepts in his Intl Toolkit.
>
>I disagree. SB is a worthy lecturer because he knows the topic. He happened to learn the topic from practical experience, but that is not the only way to learn a topic. Perhaps the best way, I agree.
>

Programmers learn by programming, not by reading about programming... Expand this statement however you like.... I rest my case here...

>
I have never in my life deployed a solution that uses ASP. I use it myself for simple utilities, testing components and the like, but I have never deployed it. I learned it from books and articles, just enough for me to get my samples, tests, and utilies working. But for my real-world apps, I use WWWC. Nonetheless, my limited practical experience, and extensive book experience has been enough to help me counsel dozens of other developers through problems they are having with ASP apps, even developing pretty extensive code samples for use in ASP.
>

>I could keep my mouth shut when an ASP question shows up here because I may not have the 'practical' experience you say is required for a good lesson, but I think that decision would be a disservice to the person with the problem.
>

You see Erik, you made my point. Would you ever pitch yourself as somebody who would give a presentation on writing industrial strength web-based ASP applications? My guess is that you would not. FWIW, peer to peer help is another deal alltogether, and my points don't extend their. If you are a step ahead of the guy asking a question, and you can answer it, you should do so. However, this should not be construed as having expert knowledge in the topic in which you are providing help. Rod Paddock is a good example here. He is shown me all sorts of tips that you will not find anywhere with respect to ASP. How does he know these? By knowing the thoery and syntax of ASP, and after having applied it in several applications. Through such experience, he learned what works, what does not work.


>
I extend these feelings to article authors. If somebody is a good author, and has enough knowledge on a subject to cover it thoroughly and accurately, they can only do the community a service by writing about it, whether they have deployed it in the real world or not.
<

Don't you think the standards for folks that write articles should be a bit higher. The truth is, it does not take a significant amount of work to be right. If Miriam's stuff was correct, would we care? Of course not. Then again, you don't end-up having your feet held to the fire until you screw up. Then, the whole issue gets examined. You then ask, why is this piece so devoid of factual content? How in the world did it happen? For me, the conclusions led me to indict the magazine, the author, and the editor. Granted, these are not popular beliefs. After all, many folks don't appreciate me bashing the only (and most likely last) mass-distributed VFP periodical remaining. Then again, I have often taken unpopular stances.

But, at least I take a stand...