John,

>Come to Devcon Walter and I will show you the power of delegation. When folks stop by the Takenote booth, I suspect a few jaws will hit the floor. Inheritance, while nice, is highly over-rated. And for sure, it is not the achilles heel of VB as you may think it is...

Unfortunately, I can't make it to devcon. I'll trust reactions from anyone alse here on ther forum regarding your framework... We'll see...

As for the value of inheritance I remember that at the UI level the importance of inheritance is significant. Do you stand corrected ?

>>Bottom line. I will be able to develop a database application much faster in VFP than you in VB. Not even that, my application will be more complete as a result of my standard framework.

>Care to make a wager???? I have a VB frame work.... And for sure, the VB stuff will scale as it is n-tier, non-UI specific, and powered by SQL Server.

I don't believe you've developed a robust framework in just a few weeks. This is impossible. I'll wait and see the reactions of our fellow UT-ers when they visit Devcon.

>>Both Jet and MSDE are not optimized for more than 5 users. Try to develop applications with a few gig in it and about a 10 - 100 users.

>Jet can go past 10. However, most companies see the value that SQL Server offers. I think your royalty free argument is a bit misguided. After all, if the DBF technology where that much better or perceived to be superior, it would have won. In fact, it lost the war a long time ago...

Jet gets real slow when using large datasets and/or more than 5 users. The VFP database does not have this limitation.

>>Installing and maintaining ODBC and all the MDAC updates, is certainly not painless. SQL server definitely needs an administrator. Even if SQL 7 requires less mainenance, keep in mind that SQL server is still in minority. There far more ORACLE servers than SQL servers. Again don't have the attitude that the client should switch database servers, because you're a VB programmer and you can only develop applications for SQL-server. You're missing the boat john...

>It is painless if you know what you are doing. We do it all of the time. Trust me when I tell you Walter, it is not I who is missing the boat here...

I would have trouble trusting you. If another familiar person well know in this forum says the same you do, I might reconsider my standpoint. As up to now the reaction out of the VFP fields are pretty lame.

>>Jet is walking the dinasour, you've got to come with something more original.
>When is the last time you looked at Jet...???

The day that MSDE came. Any reasons I want to switch to Jet if I can have MSDE or VFP ??

>>John, wether you like it or not. It is the truth. It's in the differences between c/s and LAN database. The difference in architecture between VFP and Jet is clearly an advantage in favour of VFP when it comes to performance. C/S solutions can't cache data at the OS level and Jets architecture leads to less performance when searching trough tables. I think it is proven that VFP is faster in LAN environments for most application. I you don't think so, prove it. It is you who is saying that VFP has no advantage, not me. Don't twist the argument please..

>You tried arguing this stuff before. And even then, you came up lame..

You could not prove me I was wrong.

>>Who said something about debugging ? I can let the user write programs, develop reports and ad-hoc queries without any licence. Can you do this with VB ?

>Yes...

How ?? VB does not support macro substitution and the only way to simulate this I know of is by using VBscript, which makes the whole solution pretty slow....

>>Yes, this is an advantage when you've to support older systems. Even now I have clients which are best helped with DOS applications, because of the TOC and the trouble that the Windows environment brings. Not all users are helped with Windows. And definitely don't have the attitude that Unix and Mac users should switch to Windows.

>Hey, if that is the sort of work you do, be my guest...

Maintaining this kind of systems is really cool. Less stress of DLL hell or other imcompatibilitie issues. Just straight ahead programming. I love maintaining this kind of system as long as it is only a few days a month.

>>Please give me the T-SQL syntax to search the upperboss of an employee like the following VFP command does

>Talk about being stuck in the past. What is your hang-up with SQL? If I want to find a specific record, I use a SQL Select. IF I have multiple rows, I will return the rows and let the user decide.

You should look at the question again john. This is about recursive data retrieval which is not possible in one SQL statement. It is not about finding the direct boss of the employee, but finding the upperboss without knowing how many bosses an employee has. The solution I gave is probably the fastest way to find it. It has no direct SQL equivalent. Just give me the (T-)SQL code.

But tell you what, I want to make a bet. My knowledge of SQL - SELECT is at least as good as yours (and probably better). If a third part gives me some tables, a well defined query (in human sentences), I'll construct the most efficient way to accomplish that one (within SQL and/or xBase) and you try the same.

>Walter, Rod and I have developed huge applications that incorporate this philosophy, and they scale. Be as dillusional as you want with your head in the sand.

Which philosophy ?

Highly unlikely. Mail me a demo, and I will see...

Walter,