Tamar,

Haven't we been down this road before? < BG >

>>You mentioned about the tradition of the Catholics with hospitals, etc. Actually, I'd like to suggest another point of view on that. Historically it has been Christians (of whatever denomination) that have created Hospitals, Universities, schools, orphanages and countless other humanitarian efforts.
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>I think you'll find that proportional to population, Jews have done rather a lot of this stuff. I suspect that it's more proportionally than Christians.

Please don't misunderstand my intent. By mentioning the groups I do know about I wasn't trying to imply that they were the only ones 'out there'. I'm delighted to find out that there are Jewish-based groups doing this. The more the merrier I say. <g>

As far as 'more poportionally' I'dbet that it's also geared more towards the notion of Jewish to Jewish help as well. Look, Jewish folks have indeed been treated about as badly as possible over the centuries. From my pov it's a spiritual issue though. The Enemy of God, as the personification of evil, has indeed tried to wipe the Jewish people from the face of the Earth. He hates God and God's people.

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>>All major universities in the United States with the exception of the one Jefferson started were started as an extension of a group of believers. Princeton, Yale, Harvard, etc.. Every one of them..
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>Wrong. The University of Pennsylvania, the oldest university in the US, was started by Benjamin Franklin and has always been unaffiliated with any religion.

And all the rest I mentioned? <g>

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>>Yes, folks must help themselves, but this has never historically been viewd as continaing the notion "at the expense of others", which is the insinuation made these days.
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>I think the big difference between what you believe and what I believe is in that phrase "at the expense of others." For me, when the government spends money on health care and education and similar things, I see it as benefiting society as a whole and therefore, benefiting me personally. My life is better when the lives of my countrymen (and, in fact, everyone in the world) are better. The money I invest (through taxes) in bettering other people's lives is money well-spent.

Well, I suspect Tamar we're trying to divide the yolk of an egg from the white here.. <g> As you know I don't have any trouble with paying taxes and having a portion of them used to help others. None whatsoever. I also think that 'the church' has done its job very poorly. However, the federal government is, by nature, more inefficient and unwieldy. The problem, of course, and this harkens back to my note about the church not doing its job the best way, is that until people want to do 'good' they will not so do. The feds can't make people 'want' to, and neither can the church unless by prayer. That's that's the failure of the spiritual leaders IMO; trying to do spiritual 'type' work by non-spiritual methods.

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>>I have just observed that in very general terms the Republican Party seems to be more willing to accomodate those of religious faith.
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>Not to those of my faith. Over the years, the Republican Party (or many of its members, at least) haven't been very good to Jews at all. In a paragraph I cut, you divided Republicans into "country club Republicans" and "fundamentalists." Each of those groups has a history of persecuting Jews in one way or another.
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>Tamar

Really? I know that the groups I hang out with would do just about anything to help Jews. I certainly admit that there are those stupid prejudices but I think you err when you make too sweeping generalizations and I think you're kind of close here - IMO. Regardless, it has been IMO those who hold views closer to today's liberals who have done more harm than others.

Prejusdice of this sort is nothing short of ugly IMO.