>Now the difference. DO FORM must process things different in that when the memory allocation and object contructs are first created, they are assigned to the Parent objects child property (or added to the appropriate collection). So instead of waiting for the end of the Init, it adds one step at the beginning to not only assign the Parent property, but assign the Child as well.
>

To be honest, I hadn't noticed a difference... primarily because almost all of our forms are loaded with DO FORM. I haven't had to dissect the LISAG order of form events except in an instance similar to the one that started this thread, but I did notice that in that case, we had to use the "This.Parent.Parent" method as opposed to "ThisForm.PageFrameX.PageX".

>This was rather intersting to ponder. Two distinctly different approaches to object creation. It may have to do with the fact that forms in the guise of screens existed well before classes in VFP/FoxPro. Or it may be that Joe programmer at MS thought it would be cool to do it this way and since it didn't affect the big picture (form instantiation and overall form functionality), it was ignored.

Ah yes... more to investigate... a common theme these days!